Surveying the wreckage. Lineup possibilites for 2005.

Rocket Fan --

no team is perfect. not one. there is not one team that doesn't have a weakness. not one. if the biggest offseason acquisition were pitching for us in october, you're not even thinking about the bullpen. resources aren't infinite. they're just not. and trying to pick up middle relievers is a crap shoot...they're unpredictable from year to year...that's why they're middle relievers and not starters or closers. they brought in harville, thinking he'd help. they brought up young talent to help out.

the team that gerry and drayton fielded clearly had the capacity to get to and win the world series. clearly. baseball is ultimately decided by the players on the field. we went 7 freaking games in the NLCS. win ONE MORE GAME and you're in the world series. come on. you can't hang that on the owner and the gm and not give them credit at the same time for putting together a team that got as far as it did. that's absolutely ridiculous, but so typical of the bandwagon fans in this city. complain because your team went 7 games in the championship series that management and ownership didn't do enough???? seriously...that's silly. flat out silly.

 

madmax.. we got far thats great.. that bullpen was horrible though

I dont blame drayton for that necessarily, but do you not hold the gm responsible for not getting together a decent bullpen?

the only reason we even made the playoffs was the 36-10 ending.. once we started to blow teams away and didnt have to depend on our bullpen to not blow the games..

 

I'm also not so sure andy would have made a differnce..

backe was unbelievable in his last start.. and pete left us in a position to win his game.. unless andy pitched a shut out.. our bullpen would still have been in a position to blow the game (6)

 

I give Drayton and Gerry credit for putting together a team that went as far as they did.. I always did.. even at the start of last year I thought the team could contend for a world series..

but with that bullpen .. it was only a matter of time before it would hurt us seriously..

 

Sorta like the Cardinals and Yankees weak starting pitching.

 

1. no, i don't blame gerry for an NLCS season. i give him credit for putting this team together. again...no team is without weakness. no team is without weakness. no team is without weakness. no team is without weakness.

2. yeah...they only made the playoffs because they kicked ass. because they finished a game ahead of the next best team that kicked ass. of course...that's how you make the playoffs. but i blame gerry for them kicking ass. how in the world can you spin that amazing comeback into a negative for management??

3. i'll take my chances with playoff-ace pettitte over pete munro. yeah...pete gets two starts in the NLCS. i think one of those starts MIGHT have been different with andy on the mound. just me, though.

4. the bullpen was not good in the playoffs. up to that point, it gave you no indication it would be that bad. it performed remarkably during the stretch leading you into the playoffs. those guys didn't get the job done in the playoffs. it would be nice and easy to pass the blame off on the guy who hired them, but it doesn't work that way.

 

jp.. the yankees weak starting pitching ended up being a problem....

every team does have a flaw.. it just appears boston has the least amount of them ..

everyteam has a flaw, but I think with the right amount of money you can be near perfect.. if hunsicker had 200 million for instance.. we'd have won the world series because he could have spent 120 mil to improve bull pen

It's not a bash on drayton or gerry. its just the facts of the matter.. when you are on a budget you can't make every part of the team perfect.. but if we were TRULY doing everything it takes to win a championship you woudn't be on a budget in the first place.

 

madmax.. my point was that was an amazing offensive display that last two months.. one that couldn't be kept up forever.. and once it was gone the bullpen became a factor again... we were scoring so many runs that our bullpen couldn't cost us games..

With 200 million I think Gerry would be a lot closer to perfect than the yankees.. a team with an unlimited budget should'nt have any major flaws..

 

yeah....and with $200 million i'd be rich. i don't have it, so i'm not. there's one team in all of baseball with a payroll like that. so back in reality, i don't blame either drayton or gerry for this team's shortcomings in the playoffs this season.

seen the numbers on how the bullpen performed during the run??? i have. they didn't win 36 of 46 by simply blowing teams out, Rocket Fan.

 

4.. true.. but I blame him if we don't have anyoen proven in the pen at all.. there was no one on that bullpen staff that we had reason to believe could pitch in the playoffs..

Did the bullpen pitch well the final two months? I didn't see most of that since I was gone.. but up until Mid august when I got to see the games on a daily basis the bullpen was pretty horrible.. which is why even that no good pitcher we traded hidalgo for got some time in the bullpen. ..

it's not like the pitchers jsut suddenly pitched poorly in the playoffs.. they arent quality relivers

 

madmax.. do you have the numbers on how they performed during that run? I recall us scoring insane amounts of runs that made it pretty easy on the pitchers to win

 

i'll have to run down the numbers for you. where's codell?? he posted them earlier. they were very impressive. they had no reason to believe that all of a sudden they'd be gas cans.

they're middle relievers. middle relief is entirely unpredictable from year to year. again...that's why they're not starters and they're not closers. how often do you hear of middle relievers who've been kicking ass for years in a row?? if they do, they get picked up by someone who asks them to start or close.

 

You are probably right about bullpen pitchers usually not being good...

I guess I got spoiled by the fact that with lidge dotel and wagner I never had to see our other bullpen guys..

But, I am scared this team is going to become crap soon.. we backloaded all these contracts to win this year.. this was our year to win... and knowing we had to win this year.. I'd have made sure we had at least one guy who had done well before in bullpen in playoffs...

I don't blame Drayton in past years for not raising payroll.. but after getting 3 million fans ths year.. I expect it.

He had to have made a profit this year.. if he didn't make a profit he needs to sell the team because if you can't profit with 3 million fans.. you wont profit ever

 

i'm confident they'll put together a team again next year that will compete.

 

its after next year that I'm afraid of...

oswalt.. lance etc...

I remember on the radio a while back them talking about how we didn't lock lance up before last year as we could have? .. now I'm not so sure about keeping him.. he's going to command a lot of cash.... and oswalt ..


Beltran has expressed the concern as well.. about us not being able to keep berkman... etc

 

they'll lock up lance. they'll lock up roy. they'll make a very competitive offer to beltran.

they'll let kent walk. they may trade wade.

 

Biggio? Ensberg?

 

Steve Kline, Jeff Nelson with the Yankees. Dotel kicked ass in middle relief. There are career middle relievers who are actually very good at what they do and get paid for it. Acquiring pitchers off the scrap heap works to fill alot of bullpen slots at a cheap rate, but there's something to be said for paying one or two veteran guys who you know can get the job done in crunch time.

 

I thought I recalled lance being a little upset that they woudlnt sign him long term last year.. I fear we didn't put the faith in him so he will look at free agency...

 

i don't care what they do with ensberg, frankly.

they'll pick up bidge's option, i bet.