The Rockets with Ming may resemble the Mavs defensively, but with Odom or trading down for the best available SF, they will become Mavericks clones.
Pat brought up good points about Ming,he got posted up in his workout by Christoffersen,and couldn't score against him either in the low post,plus his dislike of lifting weights to improve his upper body strength is disturbing. However the one thing that interests me is his mobility and footwork.I think he can learn to play in the paint,but it's a risk. It's all up to him if he wants to learn the game or not. The Rockets should personally interview him and get psychological and physical tests on him in my humble opinion before they make a final decision to take him or not. Mmanal,what is the best trade that the Rockets can acquire for the front court excluding Odom? I like him and he can help run the fast break and is talented,but center remains our biggest need.
The greatest thing Yao would bring to the Rockets isn't even quantifiable; it's the perception that, legitimately or not, he is a 7'5 defensive force. When you take into account that he came into basketball on his own accord, has the pedigree, and has the desire, then even the pessimist in me is more inclined to believe he'll have an impact immediately than be some false hope the Rockets hang their future on. PS- Trading the #1 interconference is stupid and counterproductive. Trading it to the Clippers for their ******* flotsam is downright idiotic. btw- trading for a player in the last year of his contract (Odom) as the primary piece in any deal involving the #1 is just as, if not more, a risk than simply taking Yao.
The Rockets with Ming may resemble the Mavs defensively, but with Odom or trading down for the best available SF, they will become Mavericks clones. And if they take Ming, they will be the Mavericks, but worse.
If the Rockets have a mirror season of 01-02 Dallas would the season be a success or a fairure? I'm not sold that Dallas is finished improving as a team and defensively.
i used to think ming would be a bust, but to many pro officals are saying that he's that good. So i'm gonna jump on the ming express...(man hat sounded corney)
"The Rockets with Ming may resemble the Mavs defensively, but with Odom or trading down for the best available SF, they will become Mavericks clones." Uh no, by trading down the Rockets would get BOTH Odom and a banger out of this draft that they desparately need to put alongside Griffin. This draft is deep and has some interesting beef inside to address the Rockets defensive woes. Saleem, I like this Odom deal the most b/c I feel it addresses our two biggest problems. All this team needs up front is a tough banger to play alongside Griffin. A PF forward tandem of Mo/Griffin with a trio of Odom/Mobley/Francis is going to provide plenty of offense. The 5 position can just be filled in with a banger that can rebound and block shots, and there are some interesting ones available in this draft.
Sac is a better defensive team because of Bibby,Jackson,and Bibby do a good job of keeping their man in front of them. The Kings are 8th in opp fg% and 18th in points allowed and 1st in pt diff. Its true they don't have shot blockers which isn't a requirement to have a good defensive team. The yr Zo was out , the Heat were 1st in opp fg % and points allowed without a shot blocker. The Rockets need a overall defensive mindset change when playing defense starting with wing player and backcourt players. They don't put pressure on the ball no where on the court and are generally beaten off the dribble. To say the Rockets can't change philosophy and become better defensively, they can look at the Celtics who went from 25th last yr to like 3rd in opp fg% and 5th pa. Someone brought up that Griffin will continue to get bulled down low,if this is true and they don't expect him to get stronger, then they made the wrong pick. If Ming doesn't get stronger or the Rockets don't think he'll get stronger, then he's the wrong choice also. The Rockets can be better than Dallas defensively only if they want to. Rudy has coached a defensive philosophy in the past,Nelson has never had any team that even resembled a defensive team. The Rockets as a whole would be better defensively with Ming and and Griffin than with Cato and Odom. The coaches were really surprised the way Ming played the pick-n-roll at the workouts. He hedged hard and really made the pg go out further than he wanted to which gives the guards a chance to recove as opposed to giving up open 15fter after open 15fter. The Dallas and Raef comparisons are way off base. Until October when the season starts, everyone will have a variety of opinions on Ming. Looking at some of the old threads that were posted about Gasol, it goes to show that no one on this site has the fortune telling abilities they claim to have. For the Rockets sake, he is as good as advertised and should at least produce Eddie Griffin type starter numbers which will make this a playoff team this season. We must remember he's not a high schooler or a 1 yr college player, he is a seasoned pro in a league weaker than the nba, but better than high school or d-1 basketball. To just past this big skillful player up ,in my mind would be a mistake. I wonder when was the last time a team with a banger and no skill players won the ring?
Leeb, we'll have to agree to disagree on that assessment. I just dont think the Ming-Griffin frontcourt is going to be all that much different than the Dallas one defensively. No doubt about it the Rockets need better defense at the point of attack I agree, but they clearly have problems matching up against any decent or better frontcourt players. The Kings did about as good a job as you can do against Shaq defensively, and I credit this to the excellent position defense of Divac. I wish defense was as easy as throwing two skinny shot blockers in the middle, but it isnt. "I wonder when was the last time a team with a banger and no skill players won the ring?" Uh, explain to me how Francis, Mobley, Odom with a PF tandem of Taylor and Griffin are not skill players? I think that team with a chiseled banger in the middle would be excellent.
We will agree to disagree. Show me a chiseled banger that you're refering too. La doesn't have one, unless you count shaq. What banger did sac have? New Jersey,Boston and some of these other teams don't have them either. Skill outweighs banging anyday. Either your in or out as far as this, but as well as Vlade defending shaq, he still avg 30pts and 13 rebs. I think Vlade playing Shaq had more to do with Shaq being hurt than Vlade playing d on him. It might have been a mix of both, but a healthy shaq destroys or is better than anyone in the league. The is that you have him guarding his man and not camping out in the lane. Portland has a banger in Dale Davis and Shaq basically rested on defense against him. Until Shaq retires or really slows down, no center will dominate him offensively or defensively,but say shaq gets 25 and your center gets 17 or 18, your other player surrounding him should be able to make up the difference like Vlade did games 1-5. In those games, Bibby was killing,Hedo played solid and Webber played well. Vlade was 15pts 10 rebs while shaq was 24pts per, but in the last 2 gms, Vlade could do anything with shaq, plus he missed his ft's. If you let Shaq rest on defense like he's doing now, you're going to see high 30 low 40pt games out of him. Do you really want that?
That "banger" you so highly prize is very likely going to be Stoudemire because Hilario won't last past the Knicks. Forgive me if I fail to get excited about improving the Rockets D by adding Lamar Odom & and a raw HS'er with the #8 pick.
If this is true, I'm on the MingWagon! We were absolutely horrifying against pick-n-roll last year. We desperately need a big man who does a good job against it. On the subject of Ming being skinny, as I understand it he weighs 296(Cluth profile). Even with a relatively weak upper body, thats still a lot of mass. Ask offensive lineman, wrestlers, or boxers if sheer mass doesn't count when you are trying to push someone around. He will outweigh a lot of the guys he'll play against. That will make a difference once he gets used to the NBA inside game. I'm not discounting the strength issue, I just think it is somewhat overblown. Btw, Raef is 240. Even with 6 inches of height, thats a big difference.
I posted this in another thread, but I think it fits here as well. Wern't Ming and Zhi Zhi substantially equal in the Chinease league. I think Ming was better, but there was not a substantial gap. For me that is not a big enough gap between a number one and a second string center on a donught team.
As others have posted before there isn't anyone in the draft who will dominate like Shaq. Does that mean we shouldn't draft anybody? There is nobody in the league that will dominate like Shaq. Does that mean we shouldn't trade for anybody either? Ming won't dominate like Shaq, and we don't neccessarily need a player to step in and be the star of our team. We need our current Star to make some improvements, and continue learning the game. With that said Ming could be a great improvement over Cato, and really help our team out. Ming is by no means a guarantee, but nobody in the draft is.
i don't understand this argument. ming and zhi zhi, throw in bateer if you want, are NOT the same people. what one of them does in the nba has no effect on what the other one can or will do. dan langhi averaged 22 points in college so i guess that means he would also average the same in the nba as any other 22 ppg scorer. why would we even need scouts, we could just look at stats and project whose going to be as good as who. this logic doesn't work in basketball. so if he scored 50 points a game with 30 rebounds would that be enough of a difference? he dominated as much as possible at that level and is ready to take the next step.
No, I am saying exactly the opposite. Ming has had very impressive numbers. And you are right, so did Langhi. But I think Langhi had such good numbers because he played for a weak team and all the plays ran through him. When he moved up to the big leagues, he could not maintain those numbers. That is my concern about Ming. Good stats from an inferior league. Will they translate to good stats in the bigs? Thats the question. In fact I think the quality of the league is more important than the quality of the stats. I am a 45 year old fat guy with the vertical leap of a cow. If I played against a bunch of second graders I would domminate. Ok, still no fancy dunks, but I would lead the league in points, rebounds, and hard fouls. That dosen't men I would do squat in the NBA. Looking at Zhi Zhi and Bateer give us some indication of how strong the CBA is relative to the NBA.
Question: If Yao Ming is a 7'5" SF, does that make Dirk Nowitzski a 7'0" SG? A 7'0" SG that's become a great rebounder, mind you, but if you didn't know how tall Dirk was, you'd swear he was a 2 guard. I mean, people criticize Yao for not being a fire-breathing banger, yet Nowitzski is praised for his perimeter game and 'banger-less' existence, and most of us would trade for him in a heartbeat. Ditto for Kevin Garnett, the next time he gets physical with someone will be the first, and I'm a big fan of KG, as well as Dirk. My point: If the biggest point of contention some of us have for the Rockets passing on Yao Ming is that he's not physical enough (yet), then I'm starting to feel better about his selection. If he has any talent (virtually everyone agrees Yao does), it won't take him very long to adjust. Just ask Eddie Griffin.
