Steve Nash is showing all of you how real PG should play

Have to echo the post about Nash going to Miami. If there is one person in the entire league who deserves to go to a team just to win a title it's him. There is something crappy with the league if someone like Steve Nash doesn't win a title in his career.

 

Lin was averaging more assists without Melo than with him. He was rolling with Jeffries and Novak.

 

He was also averaging a lot of shot attempts which was my point in the first place.

 

I like your opinian OP , but c'mon man your sig looks more ridiculous by the day.

Steve Nash is having an all nba season, usually the league should feel embarressed that a 38 yr old is leading the league in assist but not in this age of great crop of point gaurds and when he's playing like that.

 

once again, maybe rather than being the best scorer, he just chooses the right moments to shoot in high percentage times? How do you know if he shot more volume, his percentage wouldn't have been gone. He seems like a guy who reads the defense and responds rather than always creating his own shot. Once again, stats don't translate if I guy shooting 15 shots a game with 50 percent doesn't mean hell shoot 50 percent if he went for 25 shots a game

 

I agree, but not with everything. I think it's outstanding to have pass first point guard on your team (if you lack a good point guard in the first place), but I wouldn't necessarily frown upon a scoring point guard. People will often point to a point guard, like Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook and say that they are a hindrance to the flow of the game and do not necessarily make their teammates better. It can be true to a point, and to another point it's completely false.

It depends on the dynamic of the team, because that same Steve Nash didn't necessarily mesh with a player, like Shaquille O'Neal and may not possibly mesh with a dominant scorer, like Kobe or LeBron who loves to dominate the ball, where he may be regulated to a shooting point guard (without alot of ball handling). Andre Miller, Ricky Rubio, Mark Jackson, and Kendall Marshall (North Carolina), all are very good examples of pass first point guards. At the same token, would I take those players over an explosive scoring point guard looking to shoot, like an Isiah Thomas, Gary Payton, Tony Parker, or Derrick Rose.

Most of all, I've heard people, like Colin Cowherd say that you cannot win with a shoot first point guard, yet when was the last time a player lead the league in assists and got his team to the Finals. Moreover, how many title winning teams or teams who made it to the Finals was lead by a point guard in the first place. I do not think pass first point guards are necessarily as magical as people make them out to be. It's almost a fallacy to simply say a pure pass-first point guard is by default better than a shoot-first point guard. On one token, you are dismissing the individual talent and production of players in the process. Moreover, not all pass or shoot first point guards necessarily have the same skill set. It's like you have two great scorers in Lebron James and Kevin Durant, yet both have completely different skill sets.

For example, John Stockton and Jason Kidd were phenomenal passers and Stockton was a deadly shooter, like Nash, yet both players are not in the same league with say Magic Johnson or Oscar Robertson, when it comes to play-making ability. Someone ever argued once if you replaced Magic Johnson with say Kevin Johnson, John Stockton, or someone else (Steve Nash or Jason Kidd). The Lakers would've still won 5 titles. I completely disagree and undermines how great Magic was. You put Magic on any of those other teams, those franchises would have had more title fortunes. Could you imagine teaming Barkley or Malone up with Magic? Instead of having Nash to run with Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson, and other odd faces (like Diaw, Hill, Barbosa) under Magic Johnson. Landing a prime Magic with those 90s Supersonic teams, instead of Gary Payton. I do think Nash is a good play-maker, but not out as much as some make him out to be.

When I think shoot-first point guards, typically a player who takes the most shots on the team, or is amongst the team leaders, while also matchup favorable against other top scorers when it comes to shooting. Example would be Gary Payton, Derrick Rose, Kenny Anderson, Nick Van Exel, Tim Hardaway (especially as he got older), or Nate Archibald.

Additionally, some shoot first point guards are what you could classify as "great wing scorers. When it come to wing scorers, you start to think about players, like MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Drexler, Gervin, Iverson, Isiah Thomas, and etc.

Don't know why it's a bad thing to have a shoot-first point guard, especially when a team may not have any other go-to scorers. Honestly, I do not think good to great scorers are as abundant as perception has often times.

Honestly, I think it's a preferential ideal that a point guard has to be running the offense or a pass first type player. Not all offensive systems are made the same, especially when it comes to motion offenses and triangle offenses where the point guard is not necessarily a point of emphasis. Moreover, the team's best scorer/play-maker could also be the one who is running the teams offense and doing most of the ball handle, and not the team's point guard. If you have player, like MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Drexler, West, Pistol Pete, Iverson and a younger KG, you are not going to need a traditional point guard to run the offense. Probably more need for a guy who can hit open shots or make a nice play here there, but rarely for ball-handling and distribution. I never seen an almighty rule where the point guard had to be the primary ball-handler, distributor, and decision maker to maximize teams chance to win (it does if your team does not have an adequate or formidable point guard). Those skills could come with any player at any position on the floor, which I do not understand the fascination with point guards being able to run an offense or pass really well, sometimes. It's not a special skill set that is limited to that position.

Though, what makes Nash really outstanding, more so than his passing ability is his shooting ability, which is one for the ages. I'm not saying he could not score more points, if he wanted to, but I never saw him as a type who could average 23+ ppg over his entire career, even if he tried and would probably lower his percentages at the same time.

What stopped him from averaging more points per game, it's not like 20+ ppg and 10+ assist has been done before. There are several players who have done it, and who could maintain that level of production in producing points. Another thing that should be pointed out is that you can only maximize opportunities and abilities of teammates so much, before it reaches its ceiling.

Lastly, I think Phoenix would've won more, if he were also a good to great scorer, like he was great passer (and even a better defender). I do agree that point guard's defense isn't a point of emphasis, necessarily, like say a center, yet if your point guard is not necessarily a good to adequate defender. You are bound to find problems against certain teams, especially when the other teams back-court is loaded with great offensive talent.

Nash is untouchable in efficiency, yet even in his best seasons. He hasn't produce as many point (scoring and assists) totals in comparison to say Derrick Rose or Chris Paul. Honestly, I do not think Nash's production level is all that much higher than other great to good point guards. At best, it's almost wash. I do think he's the best passer among them. Another big point one should mention is how irrelevant the Suns have been without Amare Stoudemire and to a point Shawn Marion. It's funny how people often frown at Lebron for leaving Miami for Cleveland and having two MVPs (and no titles), but look how much he maximized those Cleveland teams, yet he did not play with another superstar level player, annual all-star, or formidable roster. If you replaced Lebron James with Steve Nash on those Cleveland teams, that would've declined by a little or alot as Nash got older. Even though, Nash could bring a very wide open style of play to the Cavs and help them score alot of points.

That's one thing you can hold against Nash, he's often been surrounded by really good players, but has been unable to win championships or become a dominant player.

 

it feels that point guards that get a bunch of assists are doing to fill up the stat sheet. they aren't actually playing pass-first PG, they're just dribbling the ball and if one guy gets open, he passes, otherwise he will take the shot.
nash, rubio, kidd, arguably lowry, are just some of the real pass-first PGs taht are left. not just stat-sheet stuffers.

 

I think Nash in 05 could improve an offense more than pretty much anyone

 

i completely agree and what you said about lebron towards the end was absolutely true.

lebron is something else really, go look at those cleveland rosters. the 2nd best player on that team was Mo Williams, after that was Varejo? i mean lebron really took that team to places even though the other 11 guys sucked.

i don't think nash would be able to do that.

 

Amazed at how many pgs have been brought up in this thread as pure pg's but no mention of Rajon Rondo

 

Maybe they were thinking of pure PGs who can shoot.

 

Then they wouldn't mention Ricky Rubio

 

Touche LOL.

 

He should pass 10,000 career assists sometime next season, barring injury.

Who was that guy claiming that PG is the easiest position to play and that they have the least impact on the game? I wonder what the Suns record would be right now with a league average PG.

When Nash left Dallas, who would have thought that he'd finish his career as a first ballot hall of famer?

 

hahahahahaha :grin:

 

He needs to open a school just to teach PGs how to do PnR the right way. He doesn't seem to even need to look at the row man and just hits him on stride every damn time.

But then, I've always believed that court vision is innate, cannot be taught. Great passers like Nash, Kidd, Stockton, Magic, etc. can see the whole floor, the bench, and about 10 rows up in the stand all while playing at NBA speed.

 

Steve Novak is arguably the best shooter in the history of the NBA. He's on that list as well. Can't believe you overlooked him.

 

Barkley made this joke a couple times about guys who shoot freakishly high percentage, he said they aren't shooting enough. Obviously that's a joke and doesn't apply all the time but that's sort of how I feel about Nash.

He's a great playmaker but he's also a great scorer. And, that team needs him to score more. Sure his percentage might go down but it's still a better option than Channing Frye or Shannon Brown and I'd much rather have my best player shoot a lower percentage and win more games.

 

But was shooting extremely efficiently

 

I play center. He's not showing me anything.