You are definitely a Steve Lover. This is not a good sign that we cannot win a game without SF. Yes, the team can win games without Yao because he wasn't a pivotal role in Rudy plan for this season. But now it is different because the zone start taking toll. Rox should still win without Yao. So, let me ask you "Could we have won the Lakers game if Yao was not on the floor?"
And the past few years it seems like there's been a lot more Steve Francis/Cat fans than Rockets fans here.
Hey, Ming and Steve are more likely going to be rockets for a long time, and probably end up being THE rockets. Wouldn't that make the "Yao lovers" and "Steve lovers" just rocket fans? And not fans of individual players?
No offense intended here, but it was you who brought up stats (re: 8 turnovers) to attempt to prove that Steve wasn't a team player. So does this mean you won't accept the fact that you were wrong? I think I just heard your credibility drop like a brick - good thing it didn't have too far to fall.
And you'd know that from all your 6 months of posting here... jlaw, back away from the keyboard. you are embarassing yourself with each and every post.
J-Law: You are an idiot. Kidd averages more damn turnovers then Francis, you moron! Francis had 8 turnovers, put he stole the ball 8 times from the Clippers. You are an idiot.
A few of you seem to be on the right track, and I'll just add my .02..... Steve looked bad in that game. Matter or fact, nearly the whole team looked and played bad. We couldn't score at all in the first half, why? Was it the leadership of Steve? The play of the others? Rudy? Exceptional defense by the Clips? Pick your poison. I'll agree that Steve is and should be the leader of the team. But there were several instances where he just lost his composure and acted like he was in the school yard. He stopped midcourt to get in the face of his defender, dropped the ball off to Griffin, and resulted in a turnover. Why? It appeared that Steve got a little roughed up, and wasn't given a foul call. Another instance, he is slamming the ball into the ground. And on another play he is slamming the ball past the basket into the support. And on another play he is seen slamming the ball into the backboard-an act I was sure was going to result in a technical. Now you tell me, is it likely that this behavior would discourage his teammates? You see your team leader losing it on the court, would this have any bearing on how the team plays? I believe so. Is that the reason they lost? Probably not. Did it hurt? Probably so. That was an ugly game, period. The first half was totally shameful. What was it, 13 turnovers in the first half? ~33% shooting? No foul shots to speak of. The team played poorly. We played better in the second half, and we were lucky to have come back from such a whooping in the first half. I agree that if Moochie had made those free throws, we may have won it. But I don't blame him for the loss. There were sooooo many mistakes earlier in the game to look at as well. Why simply focus on the last 2 minutes? Steve has been missing a lot of frees as well, several in that game. Ming missed a technical, but made 2 frees. Several Rockets missed a free. The Rockets lost as a TEAM. I have the game on tape, so if anybody wants some specifics, I may be able to get them. I'm no expert by any means, this is just my take on the game as a whole, so please don't bash me if you disagree with me.
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*Checks pulse* Yep a nerve has definately been struck here. That post is sooo hard to understand but I'll try my best to comprehend exactly what you are trying to say. By the sounds of it you are saying that last year the Rocks were near the bottom (-> had one of the worst records in the league) of their conference with Stevie? If that is what you are saying you should really do a bit of research (I know you, and half the other Yao-only fans have only been here since July) and find out what happened last year to the Rockets. Here's a clue. The Rockets Franchise player was injured for about 25 games last year, and of those 25 the Rockets won about 2 of those, including a huge 13 game losing streak. So without Steve, the Rockets record went something like 2-23. That is 2 wins, 23 losses. That means that nearly half our losses last year were without Steve Franis. Go back another year. To the 2000/2001 NBA season. The Rockets win 45 games and become the team with the most wins to miss out on the playoffs. Any other year the Rockets are in the playoffs with that many wins. Following that you say: And was it true that this team won two Championships w/o Steve? Please tell me you aren't seriously saying that the two championships won when Steve Francis was not even in the NBA means we can win championships now without Francis? If that is what you are saying you need therapy. I'm not even going to bother going any further with this, it's just too funny and ridiculous to be for real. As for the Lakers theory, this has been discussed soo many times (I suggest you head over to the NBA Forum and search for some of the old Lakers can't win without Shaq threads) and basically it comes down to this. The current Lakers squad is built around Shaq. The other players (Horry, Fisher, Fox, George etc. and to some extent even Bryant) were bought in to compliment Shaq. Now if the team was to be built around Kobe, you would find different role players on that team, and a better record than what they have now. What annoys me the most is that all the Yao-fans that have signed up at Clucthcity BBS know very little about the recent history of the Rockets (and I hate to use blanket statements like that, but for the most part it is true), see the boxscores for the game (some even watch the game) and are unable to see the improvement in Steve's game. Before you come in here and say Steve isn't a leader, Steve can't score like Yao or whatever other threads have popped up about Steve lately, try seeing if you statements are true before coming in here and professing you Yao-love. I for one am enjoying seeing this team grow and will also enjoy seeing them become championship contenders over the next 3-5 years, with the core squad we have now.
Why all the wrangling? Ya know it's not a good idea to put a date of registration and categorize as Yao-fan. There is some going overboard, but you can't just slam "yao-fan". Anyway, I've laid my opinion here earlier in this thread, if you disagree, we can argue. The ultimate measure of a great player is if you can bring your team to the win.
I know, and that's why I said I dont' like making blanket statements (like I did), but it was just an observation I have made about some of the threads appearing lately. I do realise there are some posters that have joined in the "Yao Ming era" and are excellent posters who are unbiased and very objective when it comes to the Rockets, but the majority of the new posters are "Yao fans".
I don't mind Yao-only fans. Yao is already attracting NON-SPORT fans! Only Jordan was able to do that!
I don't think SF is the smartest basketball player but he is not the dumbest one either. Whatever he lack as far as decision making wise on the court, I think he make up with his athletic skill and scoring abilities. Granted he is not as good as a passer as J. kidd, but kidd cannot make some of the shot or make some of the move that SF can. As a result, defense have to paid more attention to stopping Steve than stopping Kidd. So overall, I think they kind of cancel each other out. As far as leadership goes, even though Steve is not there yet, but he had make a conscious effort in the off season (by talking to MJ and others) as to how to become one. Just like other things in life, it take time and mistake for us to learn and become more perfect at it. I don't think we should put Steve under a microscope every time he made a move that doesn't seem to be too smart. We know that all of us have been there more than a few times in the past. The important thing is hopefully Steve can learn from it and this is where Rudy and the coaching staff should come in and point it out to Steve. As far as comparing Steve to Yao, it not fair to either one of them. Steve play an entire different position on the court compare to Yao. The different in culture play a big part in their personality. Here in the U.S., kid are encourage to speak up and express their opinion. As a result, they are used to express their opinion freely. This tend to encourage independent and encourage the spirit of individualityIn the Asian culture, sometime speaking up and showing off what you know are seen as boasting and immodest. Sometime if you run off your mouth in front of someone who is consider to be your elder are consider to be disrespectful. Because of this, Asian kid are consider to be more timid and nonaggressive compare to their Western counterpart. Also, imaging if you grow up in a communist country and every thing that you said and do are being watch by the communist. As a result, you tend to be careful with what you said and do. This case is especially applied to Ming who is a public image. This environment tend to force you to grow up pretty quick in your way thinking. You tend to become more modest in your word and action. As a result, you see that Yao is a very humble and mature individual for his age. But in order to be succeed Yao also need to learn the agressiveness of Steve. So, I think that both Yao and Steve can learn from each other and who said we cannot not have two leaders on the team down the road. We are all here for the Rocket and not just for Yao or just for Steve. So whatever it take to get the Rocket to the top should be every one goal. Peace.
Come on, some may not be happy with SF's leadership, but who else can take the role. Yao Ming?? He is definitely not ready in the near future. SF is our best/only option for the team right now. I like Yao Ming, but what we need most is CHEMISTRY that convert to WIN instead of arguing who gonna lead the team. KH
Let me take you Steve lovers one by one. We "were" 2-23. Past freaking tense. I'll kiss your ass if we ever go down to 2-23 without SF. The present tense.
After ReasonSF3, it is your turn, Harland. Please make a better argument with some supports, Junior. Rudy admitted that the team was making a lot of mistakes in the Clippers game. And Rudy was shaking his heads in few occasions because of the turnovers by SF. Watch the damn game before putting your fingers on the keyboard.
