If you are going to trade for a real starter, he needs to be a starter that can start Game 2 or 3 of the World Series, and the important games before. Pick up at rotation guy whenever, now? but they should be looking for an ace.
Because they’re going to pay him for a month while he ramps up. He won’t be ready to pitch the day he signs.
Tucker or Alvarez, Martin or JBB, Kemp, White and Devo for Kluber. Kemp and white would actually be upgrades for Cleveland in OF and DH respectively, everyone is cheap, lots of surplus value in prospects that don’t cost any real money. Cleveland is cheap. Get er done Luhnow.
Kluber is currently hurt, so he’ll have to come back and show he’s healthy before he can realistically be a trade candidate. Only if he comes back and shows he’s all the way back to being an ace would he be worth Tucker or Alvarez as a headliner. Assuming he’s healthy, Alvarez, Martin, plus a 3rd tier pitcher (Abreu, Bielak, etc.) seems like a decent package. I don’t think Cleveland has any use for Kemp or White, especially if they got Alvarez to stick in LF (since they also have Santana), and I don’t see Houston trading low on Devo while weakening their bullpen.
Cleveland’s DH currently has a 70 wRC+. They are on the fringes of playoff competition. Their OF generally sucks donkey balls. If I was Houston I’d rather try to send white and kemp to them than a 3rd tier pitching prospect as we obviously don’t have any real need for them and Cleveland could take a shot at stabilizing a real weakness with some guys who have had success for league minimum. If you had to take the MLB guys out for a 3rd tier pitching prospect I’d do it, but I’d rather do my deal and it does make a bit of sense to me.
Lol White and Kemp have minimal to no trade value. A playoff contender isn't acquiring either of them hoping for a turnaround.
Dude, how much value do you think I was placing on them when they were clearly throw ins after a top 20 prospect and a top 50 prospect? It wasn’t like I was saying- hey, these guys are ****ing awesome Cleveland give us Kluber. I was saying- hey Cleveland maybe a change of scenery can help fat boy and devo get some of their mojo back and kemp, as spare as he is, is literally better than most of the dog **** stuck to the bottom of a shoe you’ve been trotting out there. I mean, I’d offer them Reddick and he would really help their team, but they don’t like spending any money.
If Cleveland is trying to make the playoffs, they aren't trading Kluber. If they aren't, they don't need Kemp/White. To clarify, this is more of a general statement - I don't think Kemp or White are getting traded. Whenever they leave the Astros, it's probably as DFA.
Not necessarily. There is a middle ground there for them because they have so many very good starting pitchers that they could lose Kluber, gain 3 offensive upgrades, and be better for it. They didn’t do a rebuild this offseason, they fully believed they could get worse and still cruise to the playoffs. I could totally imagine a scenario where Álvarez, Martin, White, Devo and Kemp were way more helpful (and cheaper) in helping them get to the playoffs than Kluber. They have the opposite problem as us- they have just gaping terrible holes with nobody to fill them. We have, on the other hand, too few roster spots. Seems like there could be a deal there where the astros consolidate value into one spot and Cleveland gets basic competence in multiple spots (with the carrot for them being obviously the two top 50 prospects. But seriously, we are arguing about what fills a tertiary value spot. This isn’t how trades fail in real life.
Honestly, not really sure. I think the Astros should only trade for an SP if there's someone out there a clear tier above Peacock, but I'm not sure what the trade market looks like. Otherwise, I'm happy to go in with Peacock/Miley as #3 and #4, or McHugh if he regains his early season form. Edit: if they do trade a Tucker or Alvarez for pitching, I'd like them to target someone with 3-4 years of control, given that they need to replace Cole anyway, and we don't want to have to keep trading for another ace starter every year.
I totally agree. That’s why Kluber (or Bauer) make so much sense for the Astros. I want Kluber bc he has more club control and less douchiness than Tyler Bauer, but even Stroman doesn’t do all that much for me. I want top 20 in baseball starter with multiple years of club control if I’m making a move. Or in the bullpen I want a hammer. I don’t want any part of a move at the deadline not for a legitimate all star, top 50 type player in the league. We have no regular season weakness. We have no lineup weakness at all if healthy and either Tucker or Yordan hit at all (and if they don’t I guess Díaz DH’s and he’s above average offensively). This team is essentially perfect other than high level starting pitching. They’ve got two top 10 talent/stuff starting pitchers. I’d prefer that be 3. The other weakest spot would be Yuli at 1b. Thanks f they want to upgrade there, fine... I guess? But if it’s not with an all star don’t bother.
Yep, I'm just looking around and there's great ideas (Giolito, Scherzer, Stroman, Bauer, etc...) there's good ideas (Bumgarner, Boyd etc...) and there's rotation depth (Minor, Lyles, JAG types). I want another stud. Maybe we can trade for Morton?
I am confident about the following: 1. The list of players available will change dramatically between now and July. The list is likely to grow, and every year in July there are guys available who weren’t available in May/June. 2. Houston will add a starting pitcher before July 31. It is likely to be a starter with additional years of control remaining. It is very likely to be someone who most fans would rather see start Game 3 of a playoff series than Brad Peacock, Wade Miley, or Corbin Martin. 3. Houston will not trade Forrest Whitley, Kyle Tucker, or Yordan Alvarez. Even if they trade for an established ace, they will find a way to make a deal without including any of those 3 prospects. They have a very large group of high quality young players they can trade that other teams will want: pitchers like James, Martin, Bukauskas, Abreu, and Cionel Perez, and hitters like Beer, Nova, Fisher, Stubbs, Straw, and Toro. A package of 4 players from that group would likely be equivalent to any package any team would offer for any pitcher who will be available; if not, Houston will not be interested and will move on to pitchers with a lower asking price. They got Verlander for 2 back-end Top 100 guys plus a 2nd tide catching prospect.
I wouldn't rule out Luhnow trading for some random pitcher similar to Ryan Pressly and Astros fans are like..
Even if Kluber comes back and shows he is healthy, there is between 0 and 0.1 % chance Luhnow moves Alvarez, Martin and another player for him. That's just not the model that he has used. Whether it works out or not, I think Luhnow is counting on Whitley, Tucker and Alvarez to be three cheap studs to help fill the roster while paying Springer, the already signed long term studs, and arb payments to a few others. Keeping the current group together isn't cheap, and will get more costly....he needs those guys to stay, and to be legit, to make it work long term
