MrSpur, you can stop you're ridiculous claims about Robinson's defense being better than Hakeem's. You're Ginobli insights were actually credible to a good extent. But this Robinson and Dream comparison is hogwash. THERE IS NO COMPARISON. Dream is considered by just about every person out there with some basketball knowledge as a top 5, if not top 3, center of all time. Robinson? Not even top 10. Here's a perfect example of one view on Dream's defense from a sportswriter with no bias towards neither the Spurs nor Rockets. This is a microcosm of what just about the entire basketball world thinks of Hakeem. Hakeem Olajuwon, 6-10, C, Toronto Raptors -- It's hard to believe the Raptors gave Olajuwon a three-year contract last season, but he did perform well in spurts. Now they're trying to dump the final two years of his contract on someone. It's sad to see this happen to one of the greatest players ever. From the "Dream Shake" on offense to his relentless defense of power and quickness, he is right there with Bill Russell -- although an entirely different style -- as the best defensive center of all time with more blocks than anyone and more steals than any other big man. http://www.sportsline.com/b/page/pressbox/0,1328,5552726,00.html And no, I am not a Spurs hater. In fact the Spurs are my fourth favorite team behind the Rockets, Magic, and Kings (hopefully I don't get killed for revealing this ).
BTW, you still haven't responded to verse's challenge. name a great nba scorer that gets consistently stopped by a great one on one defender. please...name one.
I have read some truly LOL things on this BBS, and I thought that what one poster said about Shaq being a better athlete than Wilt Chamberlain was the best. But I was wrong. MrSpur's assertion that Charmin Robinson was a better defender than Olajuwon is howlingly ROTFLMFAO!! It is admirable of you, Spur, to defend the Admiral (pun intended) but he never was the center that Hakeem was when both were in their primes. The '95 Western Conference finals should have proven that. And this garbage of Robinson being double-teamed and Olajuwon not. Whose fault is that?? If I was Charmin, I would have told Hill that they needed to double Hakeem but I guess that ego of winning the MVP was too great for him to do that. Oh and Hill was an idiot for not doubling Olajuwon but hey you don't see me complaining about his decision.
WTF? That's it? That's the best you got? I tell you to bring it and you came with that weak ass sh*t? What a waste of time. As far the steals claim goes, check out Cato=Bum's post. And as for the last, 'jaded Rockets fan' part, ooooh, so that's what the problem is? Not the fact that we 'nuts' are disproving your points left and right? I dunno, I kinda think the problem is you're a dumbass Spurs nut who got too deep in some sh*t and now doesn't know when the hell to shut-up. (That's my attempt at using your "I don't know jack sh*t about this guy, but I'm going to tell him what he is" strategy. Hey, its fun!) Difference of opinion I guess.
I just thought I'd paste an old article on Manu that I read a while ago that I almost forgot about (that helped me get a good idea of how played and progressed as a player). I beleive this was an ESPN Insider article I found that someone posted on another MB. "The World Championships in Indianapolis are going to be quite a show, given the presence of so many NBA players even among European teams. Think about Dirk Nowitzki, Hedo Turkoglu or Peja Stojakovic, to name a few. But the last two seasons have shown clearly that another player is going to be noticed in Indiana: Emanuel Ginobili might be just a name for American fans but it's a well-renowned one in Europe and South America. The 24-year old, 6-7 swingman is going to be the star of a very promising Argentinean team. Born in Bahia Blanca, he played for Andino Roca in his native country then moved to Estudiantes Bahia Blanca in 1996. By his second season with Estudiantes he was scoring 24.9 point per game in the first division. Right now Ginobili is playing in the Italian pro league for the fourth consecutive season. He went to Italy in 1998 as he was becoming an up-and-coming player for his national team. He signed a three-year contract with Viola Reggio Calabria, the team then-owned by fashion entrepreneur Santo Versace. In a matter of days he achieved star status in Italy. In a defensive oriented league, Ginobili was an offensive gem, one capable of scoring in a variety of ways, driving to the hoop, finding improbable angles to get the ball over the outstretched arms of defenders, hitting from the outside, picking-up the dribble, off the screen-and-roll. He played two seasons in Reggio Calabria bringing his team to round of eight in the Italian League. During the summer of 2000, the most respected club in Italy, Kinder Virtus Bologna, acquired his rights and re-signed him for three more seasons. A lot of critics second-guessed Kinder's move, doubting a free spirit like Ginobili could adjust to the defensive oriented and highly structured system implemented by Kinder coach Ettore Messina. The critics were again silenced in a heartbeat. Ginobili put up the same numbers he had in Reggio Caalbria: more than 17 points per game, 5 rebounds and 3 steals, while shooting over 62% from two and over 38% from three-point distance. Statistics aside, Ginobili was named Italian League MVP, Euroleague' finals MVP and in the process his team completed an almost-unheard-of Grand Slam, winning the Italian Championship, the Euroleague and the Italian Cup in the same season. Not particularly big size-wise, Ginobili is an incredible athlete: explosive, he can soar over defenders and perform exciting dunks. In open court situations he can attack the basket and is almost impossible to guard successfully. You give him room and he's going to hit a three, you stay close to him and he'll blow by you and find a way to score on the drive. You call help defense to block him after his lethal first step and he can stop on a dime and hit the mid-range jumper. Offensively he doesn't have a weakness. Being lefthanded is another asset for him. Defensively, he has benefited greatly by playing under coach Messina: sometimes a foul-prone player because of his aggressiveness in chasing the ball, he's more of a ...gambler than a one-on-one defensive player. He likes to overplay opponents and play the passing lanes looking for steals. When he makes a steal the rest of the story is now very familiar throughout Europe, South America and soon North America: he will launch himself toward the basket and dunk the ball viciously. He's this player: spectacular, athletic and at the same time very efficient, solid and consistent. NBA scouts took care of him a long time ago, since he played in the Under-22 World Championship in 1997 and the World Championship in 1998 when he was just 21 in Athens. In the 1999 NBA Draft, while under contract with Reggio Calabria, San Antonio selected him at the bottom of the second round (no. 57). Since then, his NBA value has skyrocketed. When he moved to Kinder in 2000, his new club made sure he would stay at least two years, allowing an opt-out clause to join the NBA only in the summer of 2002. Last summer, Kinder extended his contract through 2004 but the clause is still there. The Spurs made sure he knows they want Ginobili in San Antonio as soon as possible. His future is up to him, "I'll wait until the end of the season and then I'll make a choice. The NBA attracts me, all the basketball players love to play against the best among their peers," he said. After winning everything in Europe, team-wise and individual awards-wise, there's no more challenge to meet in the so-called Old Continent. Come August, when the World Championship is taking place in Indianapolis, he could very well be an NBA player, already. "Lately some players from Europe have been doing great in the NBA, that's a good sign, it gives us more credit," he explains. Like all Argentinians, Ginobili feels strongly about his country - which is struggling financially and socially - and wants desperately to do well in Indianapolis as a matter of pride. Many of his teammates are playing in Europe just like him: they're well paid and respected. Their generation of players is terrific: Fabricio Oberto, Hugo Sconochini, Luis Scola and Fabricio Nocioni are leading Tau Vitoria in the Spanish League and in the Euroleague. Pepe Sanchez, out of Temple University, is a point man for Panathinaikos Athens in Greece, Ruben Wolkowysky, a former back-up center for Seattle and Dallas in the NBA is playing for CSKA Moscow, Carlos Delfino is an exciting prospect in Reggio Calabria, following in Emanuel's footsteps. However, Ginobili is the best of them all. "Many guys in Europe can play in the NBA," Detroit Pistons' scout, Tony Ronzone says, "but Ginobili is the best, by far. He's athletic, rich in skills, he can play right now." No questions asked about that. Since Argentina didn't qualify for the Olympics in Sydney, he couldn't take advantage of that stage. Now it's his time to show the rest of the World, including NBA players, why he's the best swingman to come out of Europe in years."
Manny- I mean- Comic Book Guy, did I read correctly? Did you just defend Hakeem Olajuwon? My god! The world is coming to an end!!! Nice post.
Much more rational. People lean toward "bust" if they're not fans, because most players never live up to their "potential." The top 20 or so picks come in with huge expectations. And about the next 20 after that were expected to be great at some point in college. But the NBA has maybe, what? 60 really good players tops? Maybe 20 true stars, and another 40 guys that are quite good. Then maybe another 40 who are assets to any team they might play on. Well, most of those guys, who come in with such expectations, never do a damned thing. A few are out of the league in a couple years... but most become bench fodder, 10 day contract junkies, lower class exception guys, etc. Look at any prospect. Then tell me how good you think he'll be. Then down-grade that about two levels, and you have the likely reality. Some guys surprise. Most do, but downward... not up.
I don't have a problem if people lean towards the negatives usually, but based on this guy I think it is not irrational to assume he can contribute to the Spurs considering how highly rated and considered he is.
I know we talked about this but I have an honest question.....I am still confused as to how Manu is exposing the ball TOO MUCH? I am not disgareeing i am just asking what exactly you mean and how his dribble and exposing of the ball differentiates between him and the average NBA SG. Here is a link to some of his pictures, it would be nice if someone could post a pic that might prove this and could help explain what he does wrong, and why..... Also HP when you watched Manu's games did you find he always exposes the ball or just in the highlights? Just curious. Personally I think Manu can adjust if this is a problem, but I am confused as to what the exact problem is...I want to know for myself and in general when Im playing ball myself... help here would be greatly appreciated...thanks Here is a link to PHOTOS of MANU as to where he might be exposing the ball http://spazioinwind.libero.it/manushow/foto02.htm check out both FOTO galleries
The fact is that ask any scout around the league about Nach or Manu and they will say Manu is the better prospect. I mean Nach just had surgery. Manu is at best next year another Derek Anderson. Spurs are more sure about him then they ever were with Tony Parker. If available in this draft Manu would have been taken way before Nachbar. Both a good players and have a lot to prove yet.
Please don't use a minor hernia operation that forces someone to stop playing basketball for two weeks as a method for evaluating players.
Here are some highlights that I had not seen before of Manu that I think are more impressive than the previous highlights......check them out at http://telebasket.libero.it/video.asp?sottotipo=36&id=28312
The notion that the Spurs didn't double Olajuwan is absurd. So are we to believe that Mario Elie & Horry shook their defenders of the dribble to hit those open threes? Wow those weren't the games I was watching.
