I don't have that kind of eyes, but I feel I am offended because I am a Chinese. that's why it is called racism. it is highly race related. I doubt I can do nothing when somebody is doing that gesture to my baby in the school.
I've had it done to me the first time when my family was driving through Wisconsin in 1988 (I was 13). We were walking into a MacDonalds and a white person did that while saying "ching chong chink" at the same time.
When I was growing up, I did not interact with a lot of non-white kids. After moving to California, I went through major cultural shock in the worst way. Often I was accused of being racially insensitive when I didn't even know what I said was offensive. I think we should forgive Pau for what he did in the picture but we shouldn't forgive him for not realizing his mistake. A bad apology is worse than no apology.
Again, it all comes back to the intent. If the Spanish were meaning it like "the middle finger" in a race related way, then it was indeed racist. But I don't think that's what they meant. Racism requires one to feel a sense of superiority - the Spanish are saying it wasn't meant to be this kind of gesture and I believe them.
I agree. Even though they didn't mean for the Chinese to be offended, some people were...so they should have properly apologized.
You're arguing intend and I'm arguing effect. The effect is that a group of people ARE offended... shouldn't that deserve an apology even after the fact? I never said their intent is racist.. but the symbol is... If you've lived through such symbolism.. that's what it's going to "FEEL" like to you... that's the effect. A simply apology after the fact will show some cultural sensitivity on their end. sheesh.
saying it after they've done it? anyone can do that. If given a chance, Mr. Hitler would say it better.
yes... but it seem you're blaming those who ARE offend... in which they have every right to be. It's sorta..." you need to walk in my shoes" deal.
BULL****.. There're many ignorant people in USA and UK, this is not Medieval Age, guys.. not in Spain The Guardian and people who believe these bull****s are the only one pro-racism here.. we're not racist, here are some racist, like everywhere(.. )..not generalize!
ignorance is not a defense. if its meant to be funny, its meant to be a mockery of something. Tell me something that is funny but its not a mockery of anything. Somethings are just meant to hurt, the middle finger? Its just a finger. Or like the word F**k, its just an action of having sexual intercourse, but its meant to curse another. Bout spain being a racist country, i have no idea of that as i never been to spain. But one thing i do know, watch football, the kind you play with the foot. There is still a number of the crowd that makes monkey noise to any black player regardless of team and country. There is an incident a couple years back when england is playing spain, and some of the english players are offended with the monkey jeers, which cause a big deal. And it still happens today. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=168977&cc=4716 What i'm trying to say is that, Spain is a country with almost no understanding of the word racist, and the this incident just compounded the fact. Just for extra readings, this is how an african player felt towards the chantings in spain in an interview 2 months ago. http://edition.cnn.com/2008/SPORT/football/06/13/etoo.interview/index.html
Look, just to make it clear to all those who still don't get it. Making "slanty eyes" toward an Asian person is equivalent to making silly sounds mocking the language or calling an Asian person a "chick". It's been done before and before that, to the point where it's old, pathetic, and downright uncalled for here in the 21st century. You have to understand that there was a time - a LONG LONG time leading to today - where the West generally looked DOWN upon Asians in general. In the U.S. for example, the Chinese were used as SLAVES. READ IT SLAVES... whose plight bears semblence to the African Americans albeit also different in many many ways... but bottom line is the Chinese were used to bomb cliffsides to build railroads, open the road to the West, and responsible for all sorts of sordid tasks at the feet of others. So "yes", you need to recognize that there is a HISTORY of mockery against Asians in general for as long as the West has been in contact with the East. And b/c of that, there is not only a red button, but also a lot of deep rooted anger to that effect across many a generation. Now you know. theSAGE
One of the worst things about this forum is the stupidity of new people can't edit/creating posts. So ok, here you have another one. You need to find the difference between absurd and racist. If I "make silly sounds mocking the chinese language" I'm making a stupidity, not a racist act. Maybe you can take it as offensive if you take your language as less, so that would be your problem. If I heard americans saying fiestaaaa, amigaaa or señoritaaa; I can say "what a fool", "what a spanish hater" or whatever. Like I said, Its all on the receiver, so I could start to think that offended chinese people feels themself like inferior to others.
From Wikipedia: "Racism, by its simplest definition, is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. People with racist beliefs might hate certain groups of people according to their racial groups. In the case of institutional racism, certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or get preferential treatment." From Merriam-Webster 1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race 2 : racial prejudice or discrimination From Dictionary.com rac·ism Audio Help /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rey-siz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. 2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination. 3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. If you cared to read what I wrote, I was trying to give you the historic context of institutional racism. Moreover, note the first definition in ALL THREE cases. It's about one race believing itself superior and having the right to rule others. Wikipedia Shanghai and the Boxer Revolution and read up on how the West has treated Chinese people ON THEIR OWN TURF and tell me you wouldn't be a little pissed at anything remotely verging on mockery and imperialism. Spain on the other hand, has a well told history of imperialism. If you can honestly tell me (and the Incas, and the native Peruvians, and the American Indians, etc. etc.) that all that territory Spain took over was just out of exploration, you must be the biggest ignoramus of them all. Imperialism starts with a megalomania complex - a.k.a. a superiority complex. Flash forward to today, and NO I'm not saying Spanish people hate Chinese people. I'm saying whoever sanctioned this photo or encouraged it, or passively participated in it, is essentially saying "YES, IT's OK TO MOCK THE CHINESE." JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE IGNORANT DOESN'T EXCUSE THE FACT THAT YOUR WORDS OR ACTIONS ARE RACIST There is nothing about sensitivity on the receiver's end other than confusion at how stupid other people are. With this picture, I'm sorry, but there's way you can explain it otherwise. If you think it's not arrogant to do such (and fyi arrogance is a synonym for superiority complex), ESPECIALLY WHEN CHINA IS YOUR HOST COUNTRYthen you must smoking crack. If you go to another country, most intelligent and humble people try to be open and polite. They sure as hell don't MOCK THE HOST. How can you or anyone else be so blind to this? angrySAGE It would be scary to think the Sp
fiestaaa, amigaaa etc are real words eh? "ching chong chink" isn't. you're telling me, no one's every said anything unintentional that offended you... EVER? this PARTICULAR gesture just happens to have a strong negative significance to most Asian Americans, simple as that. That's why i can't identify with Chinese people in China, they don't get offended by this symbol because they don't have any historical references to it, yet they get all up in arms about nationalistic issues. (that and many other things) you'd get mad if someone who the middle figure thought it meant "hi" and started to post this in magazines sold all over your country eh? i certainly hope so. you'd demand an apology or you'd think yourself inferior, eh? there's somethings you can laugh off and there's somethings you can't. i hope you understand cuz i really can't make it any more clear.
