So we are gonna ignore the riot thats happening in Baltimore

Well I try not to go this route, but it seems germane since we are talking about individual success:

Are you president or a CEO or one of the wealthiest people?

 

The year means 0, it's just a number. According to this logic slavery is dead because it is 2015!!! But it's not, it still exists even in this country under different forms. Doesn't matter if it is 2015, that number doesn't mean ____. People still think backwards thoughts and still act them out or want to. Trump is proof of this.

People thought they were enlightened in the 1950s, in the 1900s, in the 1800s. People at the time always look back on stupid ____ that people did long ago and say "Boy were those people stupid! Well, we sure are smarter than them!" usually the people that say that are the biggest fools. But hey it's 2015! Everything is fixed now! The problems of the past are never the problems of the future!

The President is black, Some CEOs are black, Oprah is black. Hey! Racism is over with! Meanwhile when someone wants to use evidence of someone wrongfully accused or whatever it is, that's just an isolated incident right?

Potentially small pockets? So we are ignoring that black people serve longer sentences than whites? That black people are arrested for mar1juana more than whites despite the same usage?

People like you are actually the issue. You ignore stuff like that continually to feed your own delusion. It annoys you when people bring up cases of communities being affected by it (which wasn't 65 years ago...lol) because it ruins your imaginary world view. This "Hey! It's 2015!" mentality.

It's odd, I wish people were consistent with that it's 2015 thing instead of hold on to old antiquated ideas and laws from the past as we do...It seems to only come up with this issue though. People are very picky with history aren't they?

Oh, and this statement is wrong on so many levels.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/america-social-mobility-parents-income/399311/

Read it, ignore it like I know you will so that you can continue to live in your imaginary world...or maybe realize and understand that the BS you spew in this thread is exactly that. BS. If you want more studies on this there are plenty, and hey...if you have anything to counter and show that hard work is all one needs then please, be my guest!

Social mobility in this country isn't very good. Turns out if you're born into a poor family you are way more likely to grow up poor. Just because Oprah did it or whoever you want to name did it doesn't mean that anyone can do it.

I mean, did we not just talk about Matthew Ajibade months ago? He was a mental ill student that was tortured in police custody and died. Was him being mental ill self-made? Was him being tortured and dying also self-made? That's ridiculous. Sometimes people are killed before they have a chance to do anything, that's not self-made. Sometimes people make mistakes (or rather everyone does) but never get a second chance at it.

Sometimes people make HUGE mistakes and because of who they are, get multiple chances at redeeming themselves. Ahh, Affluenza!

This idea that hard work means success is false. It is. As Franchiseblade just said...

So you know what? I'll consider that I'm the one being delusional until someone actually tries to prove it. I'm pretty open minded about things. I mean my family is extremely religious, i'm not. I used to argue in school with an atheist about such things. He proved his point, I lost faith and I have no shame in saying I'm wrong on something. Even though I wanted the faith I had to be true...it's the same with this. I want it to be true!

But you nor anyone else has proved it is the case. All you do is 'I say it, therefore it's true.' or "I knew this one guy..." or "Obama did it, so can you!" like some cheesy get rich infomercial.

I knew this one guy, works two jobs, has two kids, a wife...hasn't gone anywhere in life. Thought he was finally going to turn the corner and had to pay medical bills, wife had an injury so she couldn't work any more...all self made I'm sure.... Last I checked he's living pay check to pay check. We all have anecdotal evidence to prove what we want to prove.

Please provide some statistical evidence to prove what you're saying, studies, anything other than your word or the one guy you knew or how this person did it.

 

Those charts are pretty confusing, and I am no economist, but doesn't that article point out that when you are at the low end, your social mobility is very high, and it is only as you move toward the high end that IGE approaches 0.6 (on a scale where 0 is the most mobile and 1 is the least mobile)? From the expected income graphs, it looks like those whose parents' household income is in the bottom ten percent are expected to make individually nearly three times their parents household income (bottom 10% in 2010 was about $12,500, they are projecting $33,900). Meanwhile, the people in the 90th decile are only making about 72% of their parent's household income (less mobility, but also in the wrong direction). It is almost like the country is set up to drive people toward the middle class.

 

The text says the exact opposite of that, but this is JayGoogle's at bat.

 

When you look at it that way yes. But it's more like you are at the bottom so it's easier to go up but you are still at the bottom. You are at the top so it's harder to fall. Even the kids that are in the 10th percentile are not moving up much, a little bit yes. Personally I'd consider anyone that has an income of 33k is poor, I dunno about you but that's poor to me.

As the article states...

I mean you just look at that and see it. Kids in the 90th percentile and you see the difference between those in the 10th and 50th, it really is jarring when you look at it just on the $$$.

The chart is clearly showing that too. It's not showing that people are moving towards the middle class just that poor people offspring are becoming less poor. (But really they are an accident away from having nothing...)

sirbaihu is right too, the text says the opposite of that and the charts both show that.

Also yes, I do believe there was a study that shows there is generational mobility. That if say your income is 40k your kid may make 47k, but that is slow and is entirely different from the "Hard Work" argument that keeps getting thrown around here.

I mean also it is easier to move up from the 10th percentile and say to the 30th.

It seems some are making the argument though that if you just work hard then you too can be a CEO. I mean of course you can look at that chart and just assume that the parents are poor because they are lazy and they just raised lazy children. I'm sure that's how some will see that information any ways...

Here is another one about social mobility and USA vs other countries using IGE that's not very old...

http://www.epi.org/publication/usa-lags-peer-countries-mobility/

 

The text:

 

We're on the same side in this debate. I'm saying the same thing you are. I was pointing out that Ace's evidence is one black guy that he knows that's wealthy. Where as the studies that show the unfairness of the system cover more than just the one wealthy black guy that Ace's know. We are saying the exact same thing. Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

 

Oh no, I only quoted you to emphasize that point you made because I agreed with it. How you said that there are studies on this. I'm saying you are right about that and that's why they are the ones that have to prove their side of it.

All some of them do is say "Well, I knew this guy..." or "Obama is president, Oprah is black." but those things don't invalidate those things you mentioned any how.

 

The text in fact does not say the opposite of that. The text says that as you move to higher income strata, you're income is more easily predicted by your parents income (which you should know, since you quoted it in a subsequent post and even bolded it). That means that social mobility decreases as parents' income increases, which is what the charts show and is what I said. I don't know how you go from that to saying the opposite is true, which would be that social mobility increases as parents' income increases. That assertion is completely unsupported.

No one is arguing that having poor parents doesn't increase your chances of being poor. Your chances of being much better off than your parents if they were poor are much higher than any significant change in status if your parents are rich.

 

Yes, I see your point. It stands to reason that Bill Gates' son won't have much upward mobility, while the son of someone who's penniless has a lot of potential for upward mobility.

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: Officer cleared in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FreddieGray?src=hash">#FreddieGray</a> case <a href="https://t.co/vkzSxcZjpU">https://t.co/vkzSxcZjpU</a></p>&mdash; MSNBC (@MSNBC) <a href="https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/734761820657876992">May 23, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

Are the other 4 cases worth pursuing at this point?

 

So the family got 6 million dollars of money, but none of these cops are going to jail?

 

I think this guy was accused of being less involved than the others.

 

Black lives matter shown to be on the wrong side yet again. Rabble rousing over their own fabricated story of what really happened.

 

It would hardly be the first time. But, that's 2 defeats now. They don't exactly have momentum on their side. Maybe they still have a solid case coming up, in which case they should keep at it, but the state has got to be evaluating whether they are just flushing money down the toilet at this point.

It shows nothing of the sort. The verdict is 'not guilty,' not 'innocent.' Even if all 6 are fairly tried and acquitted, it won't mean that nothing was wrong. Gray died an avoidable death, so something was wrong even if no one goes to jail for it.

 

Yeah - this verdict wasn't a surprise from what I had been hearing since this cop hadn't really interacted with Gray. It's the other ones that everyone is waiting for.

 

He is just trolling - he enjoys getting liberal goose for dinner. Makes his little life complete.

 

Sure, but he gives me opportunities to grand stand. I know there are others thinking the same -- we don't have to worry that our proxies in law enforcement are doing anything wrong so long as indictments don't stick. I just want to remind everyone that the meaning of a court decision in very narrow.

 

Yeah that's a good point about court decisions not invalidating entire movements.