So is there a clash of civilizations or is it a made up thing?

You realize that if they ignored Israel, Israelis wouldn't need to do those things.

Right?

Please tell me you realize that.

 

No land has been stolen? Shifting of lands....Get over it, its been happening throughout history. That's hilarious, funny guy.

 

You're my problem. Kicking people out of their homes and off their land isn't population shifting. LOL How ridiculous. Is this the garbage they teach you in Israel? I'm guessing if someone kicked you out of your home and off your land you wouldn't call it population shifting, you'd call anti-Semitic, hateful blah blah. Funny how that only works your way.

Sure tough guy, the entire world just hates Jews. You got it. This is why we "come and get" them all around the US. We round 'em up all rodeo style and then put them in open air prisons because we're full of hate! Grrr! Hate!

 

It is hard to ignore a neighbor that is taking and dividing your property.

Hamas has gone about this in a terrible way, but fwiw the cultures in this part of the world are very black and white. The original Isreal partition vote is what spurred terrorism in the first place.

Both sides have good citizens, both sides have terrible leaders. One is a recognized terrorist group the other is a democratically elected and western funded terrorist group

It is cool though just keep classifying all palestinians in a group and further more muslims..

 

Why did the original Israel partition vote spur terrorism?

 

It is funny how people keep talking about "stolen land" while completely disregarding how those who were supposedly robbed attained the land in the first place. A whole lot of "HOW DARE YOU STEAL THE LAND I STOLE FAIR AND SQUARE!!!". "I stole it first" isn't really a justification...or rather it shouldn't be. It's not the Palestinian's land, odds are it'll never be their land, either they deal with it and prosper or continue to screw over their own people.

Whole generations of morons dooming their children and their children's children to a life of warfare and poverty simply because they are upset about how their parents or grandparents lost their stolen land 67 years ago. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

 

Luckily in the US I can research the history and not be spoon fed lies like a gullible child, no doubt what happens in Israel if you're representative. I'm just going you ignore you now and let you rail on about your last bastion of freedom and your war of civilizations nonsense. Good luck with that, creepy.

 

What different was Christianity about a thousand years ago? They experienced their interpretive enlightenment, some parts of the Muslim community are experiencing theirs as well (The Kurds for example). Btw, this is coming from an agnostic faith.

 

The difference is it isn't 1,000 years ago.

Can it reform? Sure. But not if we support it how it currently is.

Saying it's OK because people did bad stuff a millenia ago doesnt make much sense to me.

 

It absolutely does not make it ok, that is not the conclusion I am trying to come to. I apologize that I didn't expand on my post.

My point is that the social condition is a very random and unpredictable thing; certain circumstances and random historical events can sway the very course of a culture, or even an ideology. Now am I going to sit here and say that the Muslims have been oppressed by the Western World for the better part of a thousand years? Not at all, although in some part you could make the argument, but I will not because that is not the point I am trying to make.

My point is simply this, you see now that the Muslim culture is indeed evolving in certain parts of the globe (The US and the Kurds are two distinct examples), however, to pin a tragedy that has taken the lives of thousands of innocents due to a political war between a government (Israel) and a morally groundless group (Hamas) that is trying to manipulate a group of faith bearing people by rallying them around martyrs on a religion is not only halting progress, but I think reversing it.

So I ask you, what is the solution? Support Israel and eradicate the Muslims? Support Palestine and allow them to dictate their future (and essentially Israel's) how they see fit? Or do we educate ourselves on the historical context of the issue dating back to 1947, and truly understand the human social condition with respect to this issue, so that we may not only get at the root of the issue, but prevent it from reoccurring?


... or none of the above

 

And to clarify, I use Israel and Palestine as the example because the corporate media has somewhat subliminally instilled the idea of West vs Islam in our minds using that theater as the grounds to do so.

 

Reading the posts of some US Muslim posters on this forum, I don't see that "the Muslim culture is evolving" in the US. Are they less extremist than ISIS? I guess so. Is the ideological base of Islam completely different? There are certain common elements which are quite obvious ("Islam can do no wrong", us vs. them mentality, intolerance towards other opinions/beliefs, etc.). What about the Kurds makes them a shining example? The fact that they are not ISIS?

 

I think it's unfair that you are accused of being paid by some Israeli propaganda machine. You called the current govt. of Israel stupid and made statements against them.

But your version of what has happened and what is happening do seem to be heavily influenced by propaganda which you seem to have bought.

 

His version is the truth.

 

Sometimes. But it ignores parts of what is happening.

 

The fact that they are one of the only Muslim groups that is actively militarily engaged with the Taliban, the fact that they are extremely progressive with regards to women's' rights (they hold political office, can vote, and are in the military), and the fact that they want a democratic state that separates state and church are just a few that come to mind that makes them a base example of how progress can be made with the religion with respect to interpretive enlightenment.