Colorado Rockies Their one trade of Jason Jennings for Jason Hirsh, Taylor Buchholz and Willy Taveras inspired raves throughout baseball (one competing GM said he called to tell GM Dan O'Dowd he "deserved GM of the Year, just for that,'' and another said he would have taken Hirsh straight-up for Jennings, who's a year from free agency). Rodrigo Lopez just might benefit from a trade away from Leo Mazzone, who seemed to have the opposite effect on pitchers last season than he had in Atlanta all those years. Grade: A-. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/01/18/nl.grades/index.html
No one is high on the deal for the Astros because nobody, outside of Astros fans and the organization, think that Jennings is going to be a #2 starter. Sorry but that guy has never been that good. I hope he ends up being good for the Stros but I doubt he puts up a very good season.
Actually, people are giving Colorado lots of credit because they all perceive Hirsh and Willy T. as super-duper prospects, and future stars. Colorado wanted to keep Jennings, but didn't beleive they could re-sign him. I haven't heard anybody criticizing the deal because they think Jennings will be awful... from all the accounts I read, they've all said he'll do better once he gets out of Colorado. This is more of a case of overvaluing the prospects we gave up, rather than overvaluing Jennings. Once again... I'll trust Pupurra, who knows more about his prospects than anybody else in baseball, when he decides to trade away the home-grown guys we all think he loves way too much.
This does look bad, esp when other GMs are saying we got robbed beyond belief. I am going to wait and see, but I did not like this deal at all to begin with. Then again, I did not like the Battier trade (but I feel the Battier trade is different because we knew he was solid, but we didn't know he was this amazing).
Are other GM's monitoring our farm-hand's progress throughout their minor league development? Are other GM's watching hours and hours of footage on our pitcher's and hitter's mechanics/tendancies? Nope... they're looking at plain physical stats (Hirsh is tall, Willy is fast, Hirsh had a good minor league run, Willy can steal bases). Hirsh could turn out to be pretty good (but not likely in Colorado), while Willy could eventually learn how to hit something other than the bunt single... but for now, those two weren't going to make the 07 club better. Jennings will. Much like the Rockets (although I HATE comparing the NBA to MLB), the future is NOW with the Astros... with Berkman and Oswalt in their primes. Combine that with the WEAK NL that is up for grabs, and I have no problem with them trading two unknowns (although Willy is a "known" for now) for a guy who can throw 200 innings, is still in his 20's, and had the best year any pitcher had ever had in Colorado.
Well I can only speak for myself when I say that when the Battier trade went down I loved it and thought folks were acting crazy with their outbursts. The facts are that by the time the season started lots of folks started coming around on the Battier trade and more importantly many GM's and others in the media praised it. With this deal, the Astros are the joke of the MLB right now. Purpura was probally restricted (by Drayton) from offering Pettitte more money than as the deal with the White Sox's blew up in their face he paniced and made a deal to make a deal. You don't make a trade just because you need another starter if the trade is bad. And you don't give up key young players just because you think you have others who can step in when there would of been a deal for a better pitcher or giving up less on your end in the future. Jennings is nothing special and I just hope these young pitchers we have coming up outperform the two we got rid of and I sure hope Pence ends up being a stud in center because we gave up a kid that's gonna be great for years in Willy T.
Battier trade, everyone praises Rockets and I mean everyone. Jennings trade, who other than Astro fans like this? A: nobody I hope I am wrong but I just don't see it
Why did the Indians originally give up Willy T in the rule V draft? Why did the Astros give up on Willy T? BECAUSE HE CAN'T HIT! He was given 2 full years to prove that at the MLB level, and he didn't come thru. He may be a serviceable hitter some day... but on a team that NEEDS offense, its a huge liability. Josh Anderson has a better hitting track record in the minors than Willy does... AND he steals bases and plays a great CF. People need to stop jumping off bridges because the beloved Willy T was traded. Crying about Hirsh is at least plausible, since he has improved every year of his minor league career after bumpy starts... but I will not put up with the whining over losing Taveras.
Cardinals fans/front office were PISSED that the Astros got Jennings. So were the Cubs (who also tried to work a deal out). Those are the two teams we're competing against... and their fans were agitated that they didn't do more (or couldn't match the Astros offer) to get Jennings. Plus, I'd trust "astros fans" opinion about their own team, than some national media pundits who really only care about the Yankees and the Red Sox.
Where are you getting this data that no one likes this? On ESPN they were basically saying it could be a solid deal if Jennings is as good as he was last year, and they were split on it. And on ESPN.com they had said "good deal as long as the Astros re-sign him." You can use yourself as evidence, but so can I. I loved the Battier trade from the second I heard it while watching the draft on vacation.. and I loved the Jennings trade the same way. You can say that everyone outside likes this deal.. but I can say everyone outside overvalues Taveras especially. Taylor is purely on potential...like Nick said, esp. on him, I'll trust that Purpura has thoroughly evaluated his potential.
I went and saw Anderson in Corpus last summer and yes I think he is a nice player but to say the Indians gave up on Willy T is a joke. Do you know what the rule 5 draft is? Yes we did draft him but we knew he was not gonna make the team (just like the indians) so we traded Jeremy Robertson for Willy T and Luke Scott. Willy is a throwback player who keeps the other manager on his toes with his speed. His d was improving and it was only year 2 for a young player. Not an old timer like Lane who the Astros love for some reason. Pence, Anderson and the rest of these guys better develop and Jennings better bring it and sign an extention or else we look stupid.
The Indians don't miss Willy T... and neither will the Astros. The Indians didn't have to trade him... but they knew he wasn't going to make the 40 man roster (nor was he going to be included on the team in the near future with Sizemore, etc.), so they dealt a speedy OF who couldn't hit for a starting lefty pitcher... big deal. Also, its pretty hard to keep the opposing team's manager on his "toes" when that player never gets on base... Willy would have been ideal if we could afford to bat him 8th or 9th... but we couldn't. He had two full years to improve, with a boat-load of AB's. How much longer do you think the Astros could afford to wait on him? 3 years? 4 years? He isn't playing GG calibur defense (although it is improving) which is the only reason why Everett is still in there... and we need to win NOW, while the NL is so weak. He's not the next Kenny Lofton (in terms of trading away a CF that we will ultimately regret), and all the other players/prospects you mentioned have a far bigger upside than Willy did. Once again... the major cog in the deal was Hirsh, not Willy.
yeah the astros got screwed BIG TIME on this one......papura......you have one more season before i start screamin for a change......you havent done **** and so far the moves you have made SUCK any r****d can see that!
Pay a little more to keep Pettite and you have Pettitte, Willy T, Taylor B, Jason Hirsh > Jennings even if you don't Willy T, Taylor B, Jason Hirsh > Jennings
A speedy OF who would be nothing more than a late-inning defensive replacement/pinch-runner on most contending teams, a starting pitcher with shoulder trouble who was erratic in multiple opportunities starting at both the major league and minor league level, and a virtual unknown (or a AAAA pitcher, if you believe his minor league and major league stats thus far... aka, the "Jason Lane" of pitchers). Versus a guy who's thrown 200 innings 4 times, and just posted a sub 4 ERA in Colorado for the first time ever.
The deal is great for Colorado because they would only have Jennings for one year. If the Astros can lock Jennings up long term, it might be a good deal for Houston, too. I would have liked the Astros to keep Hirsh as a 4th starter and sign a No. 2 starter. JJ has the problem of costing the Astros a prospect and free agent money. I can only assume the Astros think they can get JJ to extend for good value. The Astros are better in 2007 due to the deal. 2008-2009 window is still murky dependant on JJ extending. If the Astros get Clemens at mid season, they should be able to make playoffs.
Well...no...but they do have scouts who watch other teams' prospects very carefully...especially teams like the Rockies who knew they would be in the market for young players this offseason well...we gave up Johan Santana in the Rule V as well...so its not as telling as you are making it out to be. All that said, I tend to agree with Nick...and Purp...Jennings will be better outside of Colorado...and Willie wasn't going to help us as much as Burke will...obviously Hirsh is the wild card but the last 6'8" pitcher we dealt to Colorado (Elarton) didnt exactly pan out either...and iirc, Elarton was a pretty big time prospect at the time as well. All in all, the merit of the deal will be determined by whether or not we sign Jennings
