Jordan would have averaged 45 points a game in today's NBA with hand-check rules and getting fouls called for sneezing on someone. I'm not adulating him...I watched him play (as did you I'm sure).
Why does it matter that LeBron is bigger? LeBron would be a different player in a smaller body. What if Jordan was in Muggsy Bogues' body? There's no way he'd be as good as Muggsy.
I don't remember Lebron being compared to Jordan when he first entered the league. The comparisons that I remember were to Magic.
It's hard to compare players that are playing in the same era. For example, there is still a constant debate over who is better: Kobe or Lebron. It is even harder to compare players that are not playing in the same ere: Kobe vs MJ, Lebron vs MJ, MJ vs Wilt etc. Since each player plays on a different team at a different time with different teammates, the individual stats and achievements are hard to correlate. You can simply argue that MJ or Kobe had a better team than Lebron, or the other way around. So I say, why not just enjoy what each of these special players bring to the game and stop comparing them.
Don't know about that. Jabbar played for 20 years, averaging almost 25ppg for the entire 20 years. Unless Lebron retires at 40 while still keeping his speed and agility, I don't think it will be likely.
it's going to be interesting to see how lebron adjust his game after is athleticism starts to diminish.
Time will tell. I do not think he will be better than Jordan, but I would not gamble money on it either. The main difference today to me seems to be the supporting cast. Cleveland with all its improvements is still a terrible team if you take Lebron out. It was not the case with the championship teams Jordan played with.
Um, go back and check the Jordan championship teams...specifically the first three champ teams. I would say Cleveland has a better cast
May have similar achievements, but two ... totally different players for the most part except for the athleticism and driving power to the basket. I really hope you are being sarcastic, because if not, you're totally false. You actually believe the players are better now, when in the 80s and 90s. Where the most reputable Golden Age year (1986), which had more HOFs in the league at one time than any other point in history. You realize the Lakers one year had four starters on the all-star team. Last time I also checked, Memphis, LA Clippers, Minnesota and New Jersey Nets do not have any all-stars on their roster. In 80s-90s, there were about eight centers who could come into the league now and be considered the best center or even player without questions. Moses Malone Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Hakeem Olajuwon Shaquille O'Neal David Robinson Patrick Ewing Artis Gilmore Dikembe Mutombo Alonzo Mourning Robert Parrish ------------------------ 2nd Tier Centers Ronny Seikaly Mark Eaton Vlade Divac Rik Smits It was also the golden age for point guards, there are about 15 PGs from those years that could come in now and be career starter at All star PG. There were seven point guards on that list who could get as many assist as Steve Nash (all better on defense, too) and still average about 19-21 ppg. Magic Johnson John Stockton Isiah Thomas Kevin Johnson Gary Payton Tim Hardaway Mark Price Chris "Muhammad Abdul-Rauf" Jackson Nick Van Exel Mookie Blaylock Muggsy Bogues Jason Kidd Rod Strickland Penny Hardaway Fat Lever Derek Harper (He was 10x the player Fisher is in the same role) The power forward position, then was deeper than it was now. I'd argue that most of these players are probably better than most PFs, now except Tim Duncan, maybe. Just about every pf below in the first group is better than Dirk, Bosh, and Gasol and have way more will-power. Karl Malone Kevin McHale Charles Barkley Chris Webber Dennis Rodman Shawn Kemp (who raised his game tremendously in the playoffs) Tom Chambers (who could also be more of small forward) Charles Oakley Terry Cummings Horace Grant Larry Bird (for a stint) Christian Laettner (who actually wasn't too bad as pro, like people have you believe) Toni Kukoc Elden Campbell Juwan Howard Also, how can the jump shooters be better now, when people say it is the worst it has ever been. Also, people like to tout how the SG as the position that has evolved the most, yet based on top level talent it's not necessarily far away better now (2000s-2010s vs. 80s-90s) MJ George Gervin Clyde Drexler Joe Dumars Adrian Dantley Reggie Miller Mitch Richmond Jeff Malone Isiah Rider Walter Davis Sidney Moncrief Latrell Sprewell Steve Smith Allan Houston Mark Aguire Eddie Jones Jim Jackson SFs ------------------------ Larry Bird James Worthy Bernard King Scottie Pippen Glen Rice How often do you see quotes, like this about an NBA player . . . "who had to play without brutish Larry Smith, who complained of a ..." or the Karl Malone cheap shots or physical defense and aggravation (what come to be known as flagrant fouls) committed by the Pistons. The best teams, except maybe the Showtime Lakers (who just casually made the game look easy and had fun doing it) had nasty, out for blood mentality. Do you think any of the better teams then would let teams like the Nuggets, 50% Rockets team, and an inexperienced Hawks team push them around and take them 7 games. I know that matchup are often a problem certain series (like Celtics and Hawks), but in the Lakers in every competitive series seem to often be taken a serious beating from teams that aren't nearly as talented they are. It's funny, because now you can't handcheck, not play too aggressively on defense (or offense, if you are a center), or let your center stand in post for more than 3 seconds. It's because those rules don't exist or are frequently called in Europe, FIBA, and High School. I still can't get over how some posters think that those decades of basketball were some kind of JV leagues, when players know are known for giving 100% effort, not play defense, being soft/push over, shy way from contact on offense, poorer shooters from mid range, and etc.
No one will ever reach MJ's level... Six-time NBA champion (1991-93, 1996-98); MVP (1988, '91, '92, '96, '98); 10-time All-NBA First Team (1987-93, 1996-98); All-NBA Second Team (1985); Defensive Player of the Year (1988); Nine-time All-Defensive First Team (1988-93, 1996-98); Rookie of the Year (1985); 14-time All-Star; All-Star MVP (1988, '96, '98); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History ('96); Olympic gold medalist (1984, '92).
LeBron is like Magic Johnson on steroids. Lebron can basically play all positions, but his athleticism is way better than Magic's was.
Size/Strength Lebron MJ Kobe Speed/Quickness Kobe MJ Lebron Clutch Spoiler Miller MJ Kobe Lebron Post Up MJ Kobe Lebron MJ was definitely a better player overall but Lebron has slightly better playmaking ability while MJ had his unstoppable fade and was basically unstoppable. The three are easily comparable maybe Lebron needs a Phil Jackson. Who knows where that could lead? :grin:
Please tell me that was a joke. If anything, the talent level today is more diluted. The only thing helping to alleviate that is the influx of talent from overseas. As an example, I don't think there has been a Rockets team to this day with the talent depth the team had at the beginning of the '85-'86 season, including the championship teams. All that young team needed was experience and Fate intervened. edit: just saw plutoblue11's post, which is more detailed.
Or maybe he hasn't seen Jordan or any of the older players play. The rules were way different back then (as many posters have stated). The way the playoffs are called now was how the game was played back then in the preseason. Big men were allowed to be.....big. They banged each other down low, protected the paint when guards came in, etc. To be a superstar back then, you really had to have skill. To score tons of points you had to make shots, not like today where you get tons of free throws to inflate your PPG. That's why regular season teams that do really well, i.e. the Cavs, get deflated in the postseason b/c the refs let the teams be more physical. If you're not skilled enough to play like that or rely on the refs to bail you out, then you'll never win in the playoffs.
Lebron is not as popular as Kobe outside of US, not to mention MJ. It's easy to understand, because his game is based more on power, which wouldn't be successful in international rules. There's no hand checking, so he would had a harder time to handle the ball; there's no super-star call, so he would be called travelling more often; most impotantly there's no three seconds rule, so centers will stay under the rim and lebron wouldn't be able to slash and draw fouls which is his butter and bread. But he can still be an all-around player like what he did for team USA in Olympics. To be frank, it's far less entertaining to see Lebron/Shaq scoring through all those ugly contacts. Some would say it's toughness, but it's more like NFL/WWE for me.
Judging talent by number of championships won is idiotic, plain and simple. Basketball is a team sport.
