Serge Ibaka traded to Toronto for Terrence Ross and 1st round pick

Gallinari is very healthy. He has missed half the possible games during his career.

Why do you think that Gallinari will sign with the Rockets over the other 20 teams that will have Gallinari level money to spend?

I appreciate the effort, and would not be upset (but skeptical) if the Rockets signed Gallinari, but I don't think that possibility mitigates not offering a #1 and Dekker or Harrell for Ibaka. Also, Serge can get minutes at the 3-5 in our system which would be huge for this year and in the future.

 

Trade grades

The deal
Raptors get: Forward Serge Ibaka
Magic get: Guard/forward Terrence Ross, lower of LA Clippers and Toronto 2017 first-round picks

Toronto Raptors: A-

Over the past 10 days, with Patrick Patterson sidelined by a knee contusion, the Raptors' power forward spot has probably been the single weakest position for any contender.

On Sunday against the Detroit Pistons, Toronto coach Dwane Casey resorted to starting rookie center Jakob Poeltl alongside fellow 7-footer Jonas Valanciunas, with yet another 7-footer ( Lucas Nogueira) as the backup 4. Pistons forward Tobias Harris lit up the bigger defenders for 24 points on 9-of-13 shooting as Detroit rallied from a 16-point deficit after three quarters to hand the Raptors their 10th loss in the last 14 games.

Something had to be done, and with Paul Millsap not going anywhere (according to the Hawks), Ibaka was the best power forward on the market. I like the aggressiveness of Toronto's move because despite the team's slide, which has dropped the Raptors into a tie with Millsap's Hawks for fourth in the East, they still have a better point differential (plus-4.4 points per game) than any team in the conference save the Cleveland Cavaliers (plus-5.3) -- who are dealing with their own slump and just lost Kevin Love for the next six weeks to knee surgery.

When it comes to assessing teams, observers tend to put too much weight on how they've played recently and don't place enough importance on how well they've played overall. That and the superior predictive power of point differential as compared to record are why ESPN's Basketball Power Index (BPI) still has Toronto as the East's second-best team, within striking distance of the Cavaliers.

Those wins and losses still count, so the Raptors will have a hard time making up the six games by which they trail Cleveland unless the Cavaliers bottom out without Love. And the Boston Celtics, four games ahead in the standings, will also be tough to catch. At this point, the best likely scenario for Toronto would be passing the Washington Wizards -- who play 18 of their remaining 28 games on the road -- for third while Cleveland hangs on to first, setting up a potential Celtics-Raptors matchup in the conference semifinals.

Adding Ibaka certainly gives Toronto a better chance in that hypothetical series. They've struggled all season -- not just the past week -- to fill the minutes Patterson doesn't play at power forward. Per NBA.com/Stats, the Raptors have been outscored this season with Patterson on the bench (minus-0.5 net rating) and morph into an elite team (plus-13.6 net rating) with him on the court.

While Patterson is an underrated role player, having one of the league's largest on-court/off-court differentials speaks to the weakness of Toronto's other options at the position. Jared Sullinger began training camp as the starting power forward, but after a foot injury caused him to gain weight, any hope he had of defending stretch 4s is now a thing of the past. Defenses don't respect rookie Pascal Siakam, and Poeltl and Nogueira bring the same spacing issues playing out of position.

So merely adding a competent power forward would be a major upgrade for the Raptors. Ibaka is better than that. His 3-point shooting (he's making a career-high 38.8 percent beyond the arc this season and is a 36.5 percent career shooter) will open up the floor for guards DeMar DeRozan and Kyle Lowry as Patterson (36.6 percent career from 3) does. And though Ibaka is no longer the elite shot-blocker he was in his younger, more athletic days, he can still help the Raptors with secondary rim protection.

Toronto did have to give up a rotation piece in Ross, a part of the team's effective bench units. Come playoff time, however, the Raptors were unlikely to have enough wing minutes for both Ross and Norman Powell to be rotation regulars. Powell is younger and cheaper, and his development surely made it easier for Toronto to part with Ross.

I'm inclined to believe this trade makes the Raptors the East's second-best team behind the Cavaliers and dramatically improves their chances of reaching the conference finals for the second straight year. Will it be enough to compete with Cleveland? That's tougher to say, but Ibaka certainly gives Casey more options for matching up with the Cavaliers' smaller lineups that were devastatingly effective in last year's East finals matchup. Toronto might well end up finishing games with Ibaka and Patterson as its frontcourt, putting five shooters on the court and improving the chances of staying with Cleveland's shooters.

Things get trickier going forward, with both Ibaka and Patterson as unrestricted free agents this summer. Dealing Ross' $10.5 million salary gives the Raptors a bit more flexibility, but maxing out Lowry would put them within striking distance of the luxury tax before attempting to re-sign either Ibaka or Patterson.

A source told ESPN that Toronto is confident of re-signing Ibaka. Perhaps that means letting Patterson go if the market gets too hot for a player who will be in his 30s by the end of a four-year contract. Or maybe the Raptors plan to re-sign both players and pay up to keep the best run in franchise history going.

Either way, the price was good for a rental. Ross is a useful bench piece but doesn't have much value above and beyond his salary and the first-round pick Toronto will give up -- the worse of its own first-rounder and one belonging to the LA Clippers, per Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical -- will surely be in the 20s, and possibly in the late 20s.

If Ibaka means the difference between getting to the conference finals and falling short, the Raptors won't regret that at all.

Orlando Magic: B

By this point, you've already read approximately 8,000 tweets noting the Magic effectively traded Victor Oladipo and the No. 11 pick in the 2016 NBA draft (used by the Oklahoma City Thunder to take Domantas Sabonis) in exchange for Ross and a pick that's certain to be in the 20s.

Obviously, nobody would make that trade if presented that way, including the Magic. When Orlando acquired Ibaka last summer, it was in the hopes that adding a veteran to the team's young core would accelerate its development into playoff contenders. Your mileage may vary on that logic, but the plan was never to flip Ibaka again before he hit free agency. That only became reality when the Magic flopped and the possibility of Ibaka leaving as an unrestricted free agent proved a concern.

So as I do with all trade grades, I'm not going to grade Orlando's return in the context of what the team gave up to get Ibaka -- a sunk cost at this point -- but only in terms of how it compares to two possibilities: (a) keeping Ibaka and letting things play out and (b) the alternative offers the Magic could have gotten.

I'm dubious Ibaka's value around the league was all that high, as ESPN's Zach Lowe suggested on Twitter. After all, for many teams he'd be nothing but a rental, and even if Toronto (or another possible suitor) re-signs him, it will be at market value rather than his current value $12.35 million salary.

Beyond that, Ibaka's value has been tarnished from its peak. His block rate has declined by more than half from its league-leading heights and Ibaka was unable to make much of a difference for Orlando defensively.

My read is a first-round pick and matching salary was about what the Magic should have expected from an Ibaka trade. Because Orlando is getting the worse of the two picks the Raptors owned, there's little upside to this first-rounder, so much of the analysis of this trade comes down to whether Ross is more valuable than an expiring contract.

To that question, I'd offer a tentative yes. Ross has become a more reliable defender, and while he's unlikely to ever be much more than a 3-point shooter on offense, that makes him a useful bench piece getting paid like it (Ross will make $10.5 million each of the next two years). He's also precisely the kind of role player the Magic could use on the wing, and swapping him for Ibaka allows Orlando to move Aaron Gordon back to power forward -- perhaps the best part of this deal from the Magic's perspective.

Maybe a better offer for Ibaka would have materialized before the deadline. But as compared to stubbornly keeping Ibaka because his value was lower than the value of what Orlando gave up to get him, this trade was a good move.​

 

Good trade for Toronto. Especially if they are indeed going "all in" and resigning Ibaka.

Decent trade for Orlando considering the sunk cost situation. For a UFA, they got a 1st round pick and a wing 3/D rotational player that they were looking for. They got their shooting.

I don't think Brewer/Harrell/1st for Ibaka was going to get it done. Orlando of course wants the 1st, but this package doesn't offer wing shooting that they were looking for. Ross fits that.

Orlando might have done a Dekker/Brewer/1st package, but clearly the Rockets were not going to offer that.

According to Keith Smith, NO OTHER team was willing to offer a 1st for Ibaka. So clearly the Rockets were offering something like Brewer+Harrell.

 

Kicking the can is a more appropriate phrase for DaDa to use here because Ibaka is a clear upgrade to the roster unlike that DoMo dude.

 

20 teams won't have that money, and we are probably the best team that will have cap space, not to mention he has history with Dantoni, and fills a pretty big need.

 

As it stands, the Rockets will be about 14 million dollars below the expected cap next season.

That is not going to get Gallinari.

The Rockets would need to move a piece to get the money to sign Gallinari..... and yes there are 15-20 teams that either have similar cap space as the Rockets or can expand their cap space, the same way the Rockets can; by moving a single movable player.

It isn't impossible for the Rockets to clear a lot of cap space to get a high end player, but it would require moving Brewer and one of our starters (Ariza/Beverley/Anderson) to get the money, AND that doesn't even take into account beating out all the other teams to get a player to agree to sign..... as far as assets go, it is quite likely if the Rockets need to move Brewer this summer, it will cost them assets to move him to clear the cap space.

 

Isnt Ibaka a free agent after this season?

 

Well lets just see what happens and then decide if we should have traded for Ibaka

 

Just sent Morey a message... Jack on a 10 day contract - drop Bobby Brown and trade a couple of 2nds (KJ or whatever it takes) for PPATT now that he may be more available

Cheap depth options since there wont be a sweetheart deal fall in their lap

 

I wonder, is it worth having 14M in cap room and flexibility to create more (but lose depth)? ...Or starting FA early with a trade, get bird rights, work as an over the cap team with access to the 8M MLE. Those are things I am sure Morey is thinking about.

 

Maybe, but that wouldn't have been possible due to salary matching. The Magic would have to take on someone like Brewer, and my guess is that they were unwilling to do that.

 

should we go after gallo?

 

Just hasn't worked for the Magic since the final year/days of SVG & Howard and it'll probably cost Rob Hennigan his job. (Didn't he come OKC?)

That was supposed to start the rebuild but 5 years later, they're no closer than yesteryear.

Spoiler

June 2012 draft

• Andrew Nicholson(1st rd - 19th overall) - lost Nicholson in FA (Wizards; not that he's anything special)
• Kyle O'Quinn(2nd rd - 49th overall) - lost O'Quinn in FA (Knicks; signed & traded to NY; Magic can swap 2nd round picks in 2019)

_______________________________________________

• Traded Ryan Anderson for Gustavo Ayon
  • Traded Gustavo Ayon with J.J. Redick & Ish Smith to Milwaukee for Tobias Harris, Doron Lamb, Beno Udrih & cash
    • Lamb is out of the league & Udrih was a free agent after that season
  • Traded Tobias Harris to Detroit for Brandon Jennings & Ersan Ilyasova
    • Jenning signed as a free agent with New York
    • Ilyasova was traded with Victor Oladipo and Domantas Sabonis to Oklahoma City for Serge Ibaka
      • Ibaka was traded to Toronto for Terrence Ross and a 1st round pick

_______________________________________________

Dwight Howard 4-team trade...

• Traded Josh Richardson to Philadelphia for Nikola Vucevic, Mo Harkless & a future 1st
  • Harkless was traded to Portland for a 2020 2nd round pick(Top 55 protected)
• Traded Dwight Howard, Earl Clark & Chris Duhon to Los Angeles for Christian Eyenga, Josh McRoberts & a 2017 1st round pick
  • Eyenga was waived
  • McRoberts was traded for Hakim Warrick
    • Hakim Warrick was waived
• Nuggets traded Arron Afflalo, Al Harrington, a 2013 2nd round pick (Romero Osby) & a 2014 1st round pick (Dario Saric) to Orlando
  • Afflalo was traded back to Denver for Evan Fournier & Devyn Marble
    • Marble & a 2020 2nd round pick was traded to the LA Clippers for C.J. Wilcox & cash
  • Harrington was waived
• Lakers traded Andrew Bynum to Philadelphia
• Sixers traded Andre Iguodala to Denver

_______________________________________________

June 2013 draft

• Victor Oladipo(1st rd - 2nd overall) - Oladipo was traded with Ersan Ilyasova & Domantas Sabonis to Oklahoma City for Serge Ibaka
• Romero Osby(2nd rd - 51st overall)

June 2014 draft

• Aaron Gordon(1st rd - 4th overall)
• Dario Saric(1st rd - 12th overall) - traded Saric & a 2017 1st to Philadelphia for Elfrid Payton

June 2015 draft

• Mario Hezonja(1st rd - 5th overall)
• Tyler Harvey(2nd rd - 51st overall)

_______________________________________________

• Traded Luke Ridnour to Memphis for Janis Timma
• Traded a 2016 2nd round pick(Top 55 protected) to Miami for Shabazz Napier
• Traded a 2020 2nd round pick to Cleveland for Joe Harris, a 2017 2nd round pick & cash; waived Joe Harris
• Traded Channing Frye to Cleveland for Jared Cunningham & 2016 2nd round pick from Portland(Portland acquired Anderson Varejao & a 2018 1st round pick from Cleveland

June 2016 draft

• Domantas Sabonis(1st rd - 11th overall) - traded with Victor Oladipo & Ersan Ilyasova to Oklahoma City for Serge Ibaka
• Stephen Zimmerman(2nd rd - 41st overall)
• Jake Layman(2nd rd - 47th overall) - traded to Portland for 2019 2nd round pick & cash

_______________________________________________

• Traded a 2019 2nd round pick to Detroit for Jodie Meeks
• Traded Shabazz Napier to Portland for cash

2011-12

• Waived Gilbert Arenas
• Signed Gabe Pruitt
• Signed Larry Hughes in December; waived in February
• Signed Ish Smith in February; traded a year later to Milwaukee(see above)

2012-13

• Signed E'Twaun Moore & DeQuan Jones
• Signed Armon Johnson in September; waived in October
• Waived Christian Eyenga, Quentin Richardson & Hakim Warrick

2013-14

• Signed Jason Maxiell, Ronnie Price, Adonis Thomas, Dewayne Dedmon
• Waived Al Harrington, Solomon Jones, Glen Davis, Jameer Nelson & Doron Lamb
• Claimed Willie Green off waivers

2014-15

• Signed Ben Gordon, Channing Frye, Peyton Siva, Seth Curry, Drew Crawford, Kadeem Batts
• Waived Ronnie Price, Jason Maxiell, Anthony Randolph, Peyton Siva, Seth Curry, Drew Crawford, Kadeem Batts & Ben Gordon

2015-16

• Signed C.J. Watson, Jason Smith, Melvin Ejim, Greg Stiemsma, Jordan Sibert, Nnanna Egwu & Keith Appling
• Waived Keith Appling, Jordan Sibert, Melvin Ejim, Greg Stiemsma, Nnanna Egwu, Jared Cunningham, Chris Copeland
• Claimed Chris Copeland off waivers

2016-17

• Signed Bismack Biyombo, D.J. Augustin, Jeff Green, Kevin Murphy, Arinze Onuaku, Damjan Rudez, Cliff Alexander, Branden Dawson, Nick Johnson, Ramon Galloway & Anthony Brown
• Waived Cliff Alexander, Branden Dawson, Kevin Murphy, Ramon Galloway, Nick Johnson, Arinze Onuaku

_______________________________________________

• 3 head coaches since firing Stan Van Gundy
  • Jacque Vaughn, James Borrego(interim), Scott Skiles & Frank Vogel

Last 5 years:

• 0 winning seasons
  • Best season: 35-47 with Scott Skiles
• Averaging 25.75 wins the previous 4 (not including this year)

All that losing and all you have to show for it is ... Aaron Gordon? Vucevic may or may not be on the block. Hezonja is in the doghouse & may or may not be on the block. Elfrid Payton? Meh. A late first from the Clippers & Terrence Ross?

 

Good player, durability a ?.

Denver is prepared to move him, given that the Nuggets anticipate that Gallinari will bypass the final season of his current contract (valued at $16.1 million) and join Millsap on the open market, and they don't plan to spend big to retain the Italian.​

 

Orlando basically giving away Moe Harkless and trading Tobias Harris for cap space that eventually went to Jeff Green are abysmal moves.
Then the Ibaka gamble.
And forcing Aaron Gordon to play SF when it is obvious to everyone he is a PF.

Just a SMH organization.

 

BimaThug would give you a better answer, but I believe the Rockets are better off with a trade, to get Bird rights and work over the cap if the Rockets can add a substantial piece going in that direction. It also allows the Rockets to keep players like Anderson or trade him for another high salary player.

I haven't heard anything one way or the other, but looking at this circumstances it appears that the Rockets really were not that high on Serge Ibaka.

 

Well then you have to throw in Brewer....

No doubt this is ALL IN time.

DD

 

Nook, Yeah, clearly the Rockets were not willing to push hard for Ibaka. It definitely looks that way. And to me it feels like it would be better for the Rockets to operate over the cap if they can add to the core at the deadline and still have the full MLE to add another piece.

 

Speaking about the MLE, what kind of player do you guys think will be available for that price though? I'm not really sure it has that much sense to operate over the cap when guys like Mahinmi and Biyombo got a 16/17Mx contract last summer...i think this MLE would be good for Euro player coming over but i'm not really sure you're going to sign a good bench player with that money, unless it's a special case like Nene...

Speaking about Euro players btw, aside Sergio, this guy should also be an interesting target, especially for the MLE.

 

Good move by the Raps, if he signs next season, I suppose it's worth the gamble anyway.