[SCIENCE!] Dems Are Faking Their Stress Over Trump’s Election

@FranchiseBlade

Checks and balances

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3563990002

Quote from article

 

Yes, but it didn't prevent it, and it didn't keep the administration from being so incompetent that they don't have a way to reunite the families. That's the point I've been making all along. It isn't the checks and balances don't still serve a purpose, but they aren't able to prevent horrible things from happening when there is a gross disregard for those checks and balances married with gross incompetence from the administration.

 

Im not going to defend the incompetence. However Trump is trying to use what he has to detain illegal immigrants. The goal isnt to breakup families.

The kids are separated because they can't be kept in adult facilities. If you're a citizen with a child and get caught breaking the law, adult and kid are separated.

I understand whats happening l, it happens here

 

He's going to go on my ignore list soon. I keep giving him a chance, which increasingly looks like a total waste of my time. As for @Os Trigonum? He's a troll down here, unfortunately. That's clear enough. He doesn't respond to posts in his own threads. In my case, it's a bit of trouble to post them if they're long, since unlike my kids and my significant other, I'm lucky to hit 25 wpm using 2 or 3 fingers. It's very disappointing, actually bizarre, since I enjoy @Os Trigonum's posts in the GARM, Hangout, and elsewhere. He doesn't give you an opinion about anything. Like you said, he just pumps out clickbait.

That leads me to something I really wish @Clutch would make a perk for contributing members or Gold members, or whatever, which is the ability to make the ignore function forum specific. That way, I wouldn't have to see Os's posts down here, since I'm usually a sucker for his "clickbait." Oddly enough, there are one or two members who are awful in the GARM, IMO, but fine elsewhere, so it wouldn't be only for D&D. It would be a perk you could chose to use in whatever forum you wished. I've suggested it in Feedback before, but @Clutch never gave a response. If it's difficult and/or impossible to do with the software he uses for the BBS, fine. So far, I haven't heard that's the case.

 

@FranchiseBlade

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo...240136/family-separation-news-lawsuit-reunite

According to this its 2800 separations.

Not the end of the world

 

No, it doesn't happen here. That is completely wrong. If you are imprisoned after a trial where you were allowed to defend yourself in court, your children can still visit you. These people haven't been tried and convicted. Many of them haven't committed a crime at all. Their children weren't allowed to visit them.What Trump and Miller were doing was trying to use cruelty as a deterrent to keep people whether legal asylum seekers or illegal immigrants from coming to the United States.

 

So because they can visit they aren't separated. The reason its different is because there is a system for the kids to be placed in.

No they arent going to have visitation from kid facility to adult which maybe sad but to do so is impractical

 

Nobody said it was the end of the world. But thousands of children being unnecessarily separated from their parents is a big deal. That's the main point. There was no need for it in the first place. We've detained families without doing this for years.

 

I think we've reguritated this same exact line of debate multiple times in the D&D.

We don't separate parents from their children for non violent civil infractions. We don't separate kids from parents when the parent drives with an expired registration for example.

All previous administrations treated families who are first time offenders as a civil matter with a pending court date. Obama created a program also that assigned case workers to those families to make sure they attend their court dates. 99% rate of success.

 

Using "thousands" to represent 2800 demonstrates the point

 

What!?!?!?!? There are numerous differences.

1. The people in prison had the opportunity to defend themselves in a court of law. They were tried and found guilty. In this case, there was no trial, there was no opportunity to defend themselves.

2. Again, many of them committed no crime at all and aren't even charged with that.

3. Punishing innocent children for this shouldn't be ignored because you think it's impractical to let families visit and care for each other.

 

Its pratical here to keep a child of someone incarcerated in their family if they are a citizen.

Not so much on the border with immigrants

 

Did you fail the place value part of math when you were in school?

 

I didn't say it wasn't true im saying it demonstrates the point.

We've already admitted the border wasnt meant to detain all these people especially kids Given that we can argue if it is a big number. You using "thousands" instead of 2800 is your attempt to emphasize what is happening.

 

It was practical. GOP tried to associate a pragamtic practice with a negative connotation with "catch and release" as if we were giving impunity to people who illegally crossed the border when it reality it was successful and the vast majority of those who were released attended their assigned court dates. Obama implemented a program that increased the ratio of those released to successfully attended their assigned court date to 99%.

Humane and pragmatic.

 

We are talking citizens vs immigrants

No its not the same. However in terms of court rights we know they aren't citizens

The goal isnt punishing kids.

Im going to write every time you infer that so you can stop now or add uselessly to this thread

 

It's a common misconception that our bill of rights only pertains to US citizens. It actually pertains to all peoples within the jurisdiction of the United States. That means that all humans have a right to a trial within the jurisdiction of the US.

 

Yes you cant corporal punish an illegal immigrant or execute them without trial or whatever. You can subject them to the laws in place regarding them

 

Subjecting someone to laws means they have to go through a trial to convict them for violating said laws. Just because someone murdered someone in plain sight and the broken law is obvious, doesn't mean the murderer has no right to a trial.

 

Please see the post above regarding trials and citizens vs. non-citizens.

Stating that it is or isn't the goal doesn't really matter. If I drop a nuke on NYC because I want to get rid of all the rats, my goal isn't to harm innocent civilians. The point is that me dropping a nuke when it isn't needed to combat the rodent problem is a problem no matter what my goals are.