Eli under pressure? Schaub under pressure? lol, but really, until Schaub can show me that he cant step it up and win big games consistently then you have to go with the more "clutch" QB.
Eli gets jumpy and runs around at the slightest hint of pressure. He rarely steps up into the pocket and more often than not turns around all caddy wampus. He also takes ill advised sacks, throws more "ah f**k it" interceptions, fumbles the ball, and is penalized for grounding far more often. Eli gambles. He is the definitive high risk high reward QB. When is the last time you saw Schaub take a 10+ yard sack or chuck a bomb without looking because he had a corner blitz coming? This doesn't make sense to me. If you were more easily rattled, wouldn't that make you an overall worse decision maker? Yes, Matt goes down *easier*, but that doesn't make him easily rattled or less aware in the pocket. It just makes him less athletic.
Donny my man...Plain and simple ..Eli is a winner that makes plays .... Schaub is good but doesn't make the same clutch plays .... BTW, did you see those dumb ass throws that somehow, almost were caught by his recievers in the 4th ???... Like I said earlier in the thread, he's not afraid to take chances ... Not afraid to let his WR's make plays for him...
Like I have always said. Eli looks average on paper, but on certain days and certain plays, he forgets that he's the sucky brother. He's the undisputed leader of a team that is going to the super bowl for the 2nd time in 5 years.
Eli is inconsistent, but yet he is the type of player when he's own he can be unstoppable. He can make any throw on the field, while he can throw on the run and make something happen out of broken plays, while he can improvise things out of nowhere and sometimes with little time to throw. He's an excellent playmaker in the same ways Rodgers, Big Ben, Romo, and Vick are. It doesn't necessarily make you the best (or better) quarterback than others, but it gives you an advantage as more athletic quarterback because sometimes you can scramble get someone open or run for some yardage (and not give up on the play). Eli is not quite as good Peyton, probably won't ever be, but arguably he might be a better play maker. Back in the earlier Super Bowl game late in 4th quarter on 3rd down, it looks like Eli is about to get gang sacked, somehow he escapes and throws a first down to David Tyree. I've seen him make plays, like that all of the time, while his brother does the auto-sack or just throw it away thing.
I think you can make a very compelling argument that Schaub is better than Eli. Manning is a sub-60% career passer, peaking in the low 60's the past couple of years, with a career QB Rating of 82 (breaking 90 only twice in his career), and a TD/INT ratio of 1.4. Schaub is a mid-60's% passer with a career Rating of 92, only once failing to eclipse 90 as a starter, and has a TD/INT ratio of 1.7 - not elite mind you, but solid. Even if you want to argue that QB rating & completion % aren't adequate tools to measure the two, the advanced metrics at Football Outsiders also give Schaub the clear edge. Schaub's DVOA (value over an average QB, essentially) is better than Eli's every single season over the past 5 years, even the last two when Manning has supposedly become an 'elite' QB. For all the props that Manning got for leading his team to victory over the 49ers, he had 6 drives after the game was tied, and did absolutely nothing until the muffed punt in OT.
D'oh, looking on the wrong side of the drive chart ledger. Manning's tally came up to 1 TD & 8 punts in the second half & OT.
I find it rather fascinating – the pro-Schaub team is, generally-speaking, a pretty rational group, IMO. I don’t believe any one overrates Schaub; they’re fairly open to identifying and discussing his limitations and I’ve yet to see anyone be steadfastly against upgrading him if a legitimate opportunity presented itself. Even within its ranks (and I’m a card-carrying member), there’s room for debate and disagreement about how good he is. But the anti-Schaub crowd? They don’t seem to budge at all. They give no ground whatsoever. Even when handed very reasonable counter-arguments – nope, their mind is made up. For instance, this debate. As Donny mentioned, his first post speaks highly of Eli; he flat-out states he would not take issue with a pro-Eli vote. And so, of course, he’s slapped with a DonnySchaub post. Since becoming full-time starters, here are their numbers: Eli: 2,196/3,742 (58.6%); 26,534 yards; 179 TDs; 120 INTs; 7.13 YPA; 83.50 QBR Schaub: 1,382/2,118 (65.2%); 16.903 yards; 92 TDs; 52 INTs; 7.98 YPA; 93.96 QBR Games started: Eli: 112 Schaub: 64. Quite a discrepancy, huh? So let’s give Schaub the additional 1,624 pass attempts that currently separates the two of them in order to paint a better 1:1 comparison: Eli: 2,196/3,742 (58.6%); 26,534 yards; 179 TDs; 120 INTs; 7.13 YPA; 83.50 QBR Schaub: 2,441/3,742 (65.2%); 29,718 yards; 162 TDs; 91 INTs; 7.98 YPA; 94.28 QBR Eli has never missed a start; he has SB ring and his currently playing for a second one. His playoff record, IIRC, is 7-3. Those are big-time equalizers because, statistically, Matt Schaub very nearly dominates Eli Manning; it's barely a debate. I don’t think this is as cut-and-dried as people think, and I sure don’t think anyone suggesting Schaub is Eli’s equal, if not superior, is that far off-base, given the statistical gulf between the two of them. I look forward to the anti-Schaub crowd’s “Yeah, but…”
Manning, this season had more 4th quarter comebacks and touchdowns than any other quarterback. Over his career, he has had 19 fourth quarter comebacks, 23 game winning drives, and won 6 road playoff games. Even with all the numbers, Schaub hasn't come close to that type success. Another QB who didn't necessarily have off the chart QB metrics, but was great winner and an outstanding player was ... John Elway. His numbers didn't exactly rip open the record books, while even for his time, his completion percentage ranged from slightly above average to slightly below average. He didn't crack 60% until he was 33, especially for elite QBs that's sort of below par, but do not compare him to Tim Tebow. Yet, I cannot think of too many other QBs I would take over Elway. He was a quintessential playmaker.
I wonder what Schaub would be like with the Giants recievers? I bet he would do better than he's done here with Dre and #4,5,6 recievers. (have we ever had a real #2?) I would also take Eli's 4th qtr comeback prowess with a grain of salt. I mean.. should he have been behind all those times? I figure if he was that good.. they wouldn't need to be in comeback mode so often.
Only on a Texans forum would there be a straight faced decision comparing Eli with Schaub. LOL Eli is so much better and it's not even close. A better comparison would be Shaub vs. Rivers. PS... Rivers is better than Shaub too.
You are putting alot of emphasis on numbers, and you would have to watch these games. One example is the argument between Joe Montana and Steve Young. With Steve Young, I've seen people argue that he was a better player based on numbers as a starter and averages per (regular) season, such as being possibly a more accurate passer, less interceptions, higher QB rating, and more prolific in touchdown passes. I've seen it with my eyes, Young doesn't come close to Montana. He very rarely could get past those tougher squads or "clash of the titans" type of games. Moreover, Montana had greater numbers in the playoffs and performed better under pressure. Not saying Eli is Montana, but if he keeps winning Super Bowls, he's at worst better than alot good to average QBs. I could compare Kevin Martin's averages to Reggie Miller's based on pure numbers, but most people would say that I am a very foolish person and that I need to go play Halo 2, like all of the other young people. I've seen both players with my eyes, Miller was a far more dangerous/feared offensive player than Martin. Schaub only has a big leg up in completion percentage, it's not as dominating across the board as you suggest. While, Schaub has yet to reach the playoffs, though he has been injured and they did make it this year. It also a matter of pointing out that Schaub rarely can stay healthy enough for the Texans to go further, while Eli is probably one of the most durable QBs in the NFL. That means everything Most important stat, Eli is 69-50 vs. Matt's 32-34, while in Eli's first five seasons the Giants were 42-29 (6 of those losses came in his rookie year, if you deduct the rookie year, his record goes to 41-23). Subtract two losses from Schaub, it goes to 32-32. That is saying something and that's sizeable margin, given most of that is from Eli's earliest seasons against Schaub's prime seasons as starter. Lastly, Eli reached the playoffs with the Giants in four out of his first five seasons. Even comparing Schaub to a frowned on QB, like Michael Vick, he's failing to get the wins. Even with his bad habits, bad attitude, and unwillingness to improve as a passer, Vick lead the Falcons to a record of 38-28-1 in his first six years in Atlanta (accidentally reached NFC title game) and remember his teams weren't loaded with playmakers or a great defense, neither. Very average on both sides of the ball, but they won games, somehow. 31-19 in his first five seasons. Don't get me wrong Schaub is a good QB, but he's not a playmaker and he really hasn't made alot of big plays to win games. While, I would say he is not amongst the great passers, like Brees, Manning, and Brady. He's not the type of player that can get mediocre to very average (offensive) team into the playoffs. Moreover, The Giants have averaged more points per game (04-11) with Eli than The Texans have averaged with Schaub (06-11). While, Eli is averaging 23.1 touchdowns passes per season vs. Matt Schuab's 5 seasons with the Texans is only at 18.4 touchdowns passes per season. In Eli's first five seasons, he only averaged 19.6 touchdowns per season. The Giants: 11: 24.6 10: 24.6 09: 25.1 08: 26.7 07: 23.3 06: 22.2 05: 26.4 04: 18.9 (15.28 with Eli) The Texans 11: 23.8 (27.3) 10: 24.4 09: 24.2 08: 22.9 07: 23.7 06: 16.7 Additionally, you should take into considerations stats, like 4th quarter efficiency, 4th quarter QB rating, 3rd down conversations, and etc. http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversions-per-game
