What do you want? My opinion hasn't changed from my first post in this thread based on one game. I wouldn't be in here waving my finger at people if the Giants had lost, that is stupid. Either you value team accomplishments more than individual performance/ability or you don't. So there's really no point in continuing this argument.
It isn't really "funny" because he took Eli only because of durability and seemingly begrudgingly at that because he thought Schaub's stats "blew away" Eli's. Donny still thinks they are pretty much the same guy. I am with Donny that the argument is played out, but don't act like I ran around laughing at people who were saying Eli was a better quarterback.
Also this thread took a turn saying that people on the Schaub side of the argument were Texans homers. I totally disagree, I think they are much more Eli haters. People who saw how much Eli sucked at the beginning and refuse to believe bad, early Eli is gone. I am a huge Texans fan and was never a TJ Yates will take over, or trade Schaub guy. I am however aware how hard it is to win playoff games, and how important it is for whoever you have to be healthy.
This thread has obviously been played out. But I'll stick my 2 cents in here. 1. QBs are more team dependent than most people think. And I feel Schaub is more dependent on the system than Eli. But both QBs can only do what their surrounding players allow them to do. 2. Eli's play this season has really elevated. Whether this is due to surrounding cast or himself, I'm not enough of a guru to determine. While Schaub has more or less been the same QB over the years. Then again, he's had the same people to throw to over these same years. Overall, if I were to start a team I'd pick Eli. But with our current offense with Kubiak, I'd probably go with Schaub. But these sort of comparisons are so murky. Still, gotta give Eli extra credit for playing well against top competition under pressure.
maybe some are eli haters or they are just having a hard time getting rid of the bad taste that eli's game has given people over his career. The year he put up certainly makes you reconsider who he is as a player.
I hate Peyton Manning; I have no opinion of Eli whatsoever. Why would I? I’m a Texan fan and we play a meaningless game against him every four years. What I dislike is the anti-Schaub contingent’s stubbornness and close-mindedness. I would’ve thought a potential Super Bowl season being derailed not by Foster’s, Williams’ or Johnson’s injuries but Schaub’s would have bought him some newfound – if begrudging – respect around here. I was apparently very, very wrong. I never intended to denigrate Eli Manning, and never did, frankly. Look back through each and every one of my posts and the running theme is asking people to reconsider Matt Schaub, not ripping Eli Manning. I didn’t post silly pictures; I didn’t label anybody; I didn’t dismiss anyone’s opinion (dismiss does not = disagree); in fact, I conceded some points and repeatedly gave reasoned responses to others. I didn’t continually move the target; I didn’t dismiss Eli’s accomplishments or inflate Schaub’s. Heck fire, I didn’t even freaking choose Schaub in the ultimate debate. I said from the outset (it might have even been my very first post in this thread) that the pro-Schaub crowd is far more reasoned and realistic than the anti-Schaub crowd. None of us are oblivious to Schaub’s limitations; none of us dismiss the holes in his resume; none of us bury our heads in the sand and pretend Schaub is above reproach. And I think this thread bears that out. Schaub’s statistical resume is comparable to 3, maybe 5 QBs in all of football. And it’s better than Eli’s. Considerably. That’s not up for debate. If you think the numbers are inflated; if you want to include playoff numbers; if you want to place a greater importance on team wins/accomplishments, that’s fine and perfectly acceptable - I don’t think anyone is arguing Eli hasn’t been an important component of the Giants’ success these past five years. But to outright dismiss the numbers; or the chop them up until they’re no longer recognizable; to not concede your affinity for team accomplishments over individual accomplishments, somehow confusing the two as one… that’s the gist, for me. That’s what I “hate.” Hopefully, Schaub bounces back healthy and this debate can be had on the field next year.
B.S. That shows me that Schaub is a small piece to this teams overall success. When we lost Foster we had serious trouble. When we lost Johnson we had serious trouble. When we lost Schaub we did ok with a 5th round rookie QB. Coincidence? So you're telling me that Schaub means more to this team than Foster of AJ? I don't think so and most here would agree.
Schaub without Johnson went 4-2 and the offense averaged 27.7 points per game. Yates without Johnson went 3-2 (the last game of the season was handed to Delhomme) while the offense averaged a meager 16 pts/game. put away your anti-Schaub glasses for once. Yates had both Johnson AND Foster against the Ravens, yet the team couldn't even put up 14 points.
Without Foster we smashed Indy (375 yards total offense, more than our season average, almost 5 yards per carry) and Miami (Tate rolled again with almost 5 yards per carry, game winning drive was all him killing the clock on the ground), and lost to the Saints because of a defensive meltdown. Without AJ, but with Schaub starting, we went 4-2 and averaged 27 points and 407 yards per game (!!!!!). Without Matt, we went 3-3 (losing to 3 bad teams), averaging 18 points per game and 332 yards per game. Mind you, this was when our defense had rounded into elite form. So, don't give me this crap about Matt not being the most important component of our offense, if not our entire team.
They went 2-1 without Foster, scoring 90 points in the 3 games. They went 5-4 in games Johnson missed completely, averaging 23.9 points/game (they averaged 23.3/game in the seven he played), including their two largest scoring totals for the year (41 and 37). And they beat both Pittsburgh and Atlanta, two playoff teams, with Johnson missing at least a half in each game (which puts them at 7-4 in games Johnson didn’t finish). They were 7-3 with Schaub, averaging 27.3 points/game; 4-4 without him, averaging 19 points/game. They beat Cincinnati twice without Schaub, including a playoff victory. Also, since AJ and Schaub's injuries overlapped: With Schaub/without AJ: 4-2 Without Schaub/without AJ: 1-2. You’re free to disregard the numbers and believe whatever you want. ELI FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice post. I think it's clear to see, except in Schaub haters eyes, that the Texans offense went to complete crap after they lost Schaub. Leinart/Yates Jacksonville 20 points Atlanta 17 points Cincinatti 20 points Carolina 13 points Indy 16 points Tennessee 22 points With Schaub Indy 34 points Miami 23 points New Orleans 33 points Pittsburg 17 points Oakland 20 points Baltimore 14 points Tennessee 41 points Jacksonville 24 points Cleveland 30 points Tampa Bay 37 points Without Schaub the Texans would have never made the playoffs.
Not a Schaub hater <<<< "But" I don't think he has what it takes to win it all. I think he is good enough to get us into the post season (easily) but he doesn't have that "it" factor (Killer Instinct) in the 4th qtr. Where he's able to bullet a pass into tight coverage. To me anyways I've seen games get out off hand because the defensive pressure stepped up two fold once the 2min drill started in the 4th.. Is Schaub Good .. Heck yes he's good but he's a tier 3 QB... I think from what I've seen in the playoffs and superbowl the game is won in the 4th. Schaub has not given me feeling he's capable of being that 4th qtr guy. I could be totally wrong but I haven't seen it.
Their offense went south, but they would have still made the playoffs. Let's not go that far. Also how bad they got without Schaub and how vital he is to the team is more about their backups. They have the best RB in football who also catches 50-60 passes a year, and a pro bowl tightend to make up for 'Dre. They have Ben Tate to step in for Foster. They have garbage and inexperience to backup Schaub.
Define your tiers. I put him in second tier behind the elites. But I only think of three tiers. Elite level Guys you are not looking to replace Guys you are looking to replace
There is almost no chance we make the playoffs with Leinart or Yates starting all year. We would've gone 7-9 at best. Titans take the division.
Why do you think that? Kubiak shut it down after Carolina (where our defense got clowned) because we could have beat Indy and Tenn. In the 10 wins Schaub had, our D held teams to an average of 10 points and max of 14. TJ would have lost 3 of those games? That is insane, defense and running game was dominant.
I'm going to try but will probably have some names wrong or missing.. Just my opinion 1st Tier A. Rodgers T. Brady D. Brees 2nd Tier E. Manning B. Roethislberger M. Stafford Tier 2.5 LOL P. Rivers C. Newton Tier 3. Schaub T. Romo J. Flacco A. Dalton R. Fitzpatrick Might miss some here.. Tier 4.. The Rest
