I'll translate, cause I have to live in the same peninsula as these people. In Saudi there is essentially two important cities, Riyadh and Jeddah. Jeddah is like the California of Saudi Arabia. Riyadh is like if one family in Mississippi found 30% of the world's oil under their land 50 years ago and partnered up with Clive Bundy's militia to make sure no one touches it. Exiled is from near Riyadh, and Riyadh is right now in the midst of realizing they have only 2-3 years of reserves at current oil prices in the bank, and 90% of their income is oil based after 50 years of consuming oil money. To make matters worse, Saudi is at war with a small tribe of people in Yemen and are spending more than they have ever spent on weapons. At home there is an onslaught of people and media talking about how they're freeing Yemen from the tyranny of that tribe, meanwhile every other media outlet in the world is telling him that the only people who can afford to give him welfare are doing something very wrong. This is a tough one for a young person. What spurs him on is the very real belief that there's an end of times holy war brewing so it doesn't ****ing matter what anyone does cause that's going to happen anyway. What emboldens people like Exiled is that he has a smartphone and a car and various other gadgets which makes him feel like he is in some way modern. He believes access to information is the same as having information. He believes that by having the same smartphone as you and I, he is as informed as you and I. In reality, he gets most of his news from whatsapp or bbm - I know this because I see so many of the articles and "facts" he posts here in advance of him posting them. My wife's mother forwards them to me all the time. She's 68. Hopefully that gives you a good idea. Please don't take this guy to be the average Saudi. There are lots of this guy in Saudi of course, but he's certainly not the average anymore. He reminds me of a hilarious skit from a Saudi youtube channel a few days ago. This one's for you Exiled! Learn a lesson from Hisham. He's mocking people like you lol. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hIVz3JokBkg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I don't fully understand why Saudi Arabia is so upset? They basically murdered a guy for speaking against them. A bunch of Persians attacked the Saudi embassy, but no Saudi citizens or anyone was harmed. Yet Bahrain, Sudan (surprised they can afford an ambassador to anywhere actually), UAE and the **** hole of a country that Saudi is are pissed at Iran?
Yes, but living off government subsidies. He doesn't live in the RV btw. It's just for doing things he can't do because he lives with his parents.
in the starkest terms possible: Because of asslicking due to oil dependence, the "defenders of freedom and liberty" don't say much when Saudi Arabia commits crimes like this. Look at the muted response. The Saudi regime has no value in common with Western democracies, aside from the value of their oil barrels. You can be sure that if any other regime had committed these executions, harsh words, sanctions, and more would follow. Instead, we have nothing but impunity. This impunity only breeds tolerance for more crimes and human rights violations, and makes all Western powers look like hypocrites when they attack the human rights abuses of others while providing one of the largest human rights abusers in the world with arms deals. It is green parties that are both leading the charge on removing this oil gag on rightful condemnation and condemning the Saudi regime. It is no coincidence that Sweden is trying to get rid of its oil dependence, and it, among all of the Western powers, has been the most forthright and honest in condemning and seeking to stop the madness that is the current Saudi regime. Any more questions? Want me to reclarify?
Umm... It's pretty obvious that Western States are begrudgingly accepting Saudi's mass human right's violations because of oil. If Western states became less dependent on carbon based energy, it would turn that begrudging acceptance into economic sanctions. Let's see how the absurdly spoiled rich Arabs with their Lamborghinis and diplomatic immunity handle that.
This is not true. It's not "begrudgingly". Western States are simply indifferent to mass human rights violations by other countries. Where there's money they'll do whatever PR necessary to get that money. I don't know where Westerners get this notion that their foreign policy has anything to do with international laws or morality or a deep concern for human rights. Well, I do know where they get that notion from but I'm told by them repeatedly that they know the media is BS'ing them. You've actually served so I'm especially shocked that you think policy makers and strategists at the highest level give a damn about this stuff. Not only do they not care but there are a multitude of instances of them supporting more egregious human rights violators to achieve economic and political goals. There is simply no correlation and that's not to say the the "West" is especially indifferent, but "Westerners" seem to glorify these particular government "values" to a ridiculous degree. Governments don't care about this stuff. From your earlier posts I got the impression that through your experiences you've become well aware of that. Maybe I'm just misreading this post, I don't know.
I'll rephrase. I'm sure many do begrudgingly accept Saudi. However, there is plenty of self-interest with Western states to hinder the Wahahbist movement in Saudi.
So Mathloom, in your opinion what percentage of the Saudis are not enthralled by the craziness of Wahabism and would be for getting rid of the medieval Saudi kingship and being more modern say like educated classes in say Tunisia.
Yeah, what do environmentalists have to do with this? I understand there is a contradiction, almost a hypocrisy, but so what?
It's so complex. I'm going to stick to the analogy for this one, for obvious reasons. So 50 years ago one family finds the oil with the help of a foreign power. This is a regular family, no strong ideology. They are taught that they need a militia with an ideology that justifies violence in order to justify keeping the oil private, rather than handing it over to everyone. So they pay Clive Bundy as a partner to protect their oil and new found power forever - this is literally in writing. Let's call that militia Bundahabi. The money from the oil is split, I don't know the percentages. But even 20% of that oil is enough to fund a country. Meanwhile, all the proceeds from the oil must be kept in - you guessed it - banks in the jurisdiction of the foreign power. That's unrelated but an interesting thought which I don't think Americans know about. That's a LOT of money. A LOT. That's money capable of strong arming entire markets. Now, over 50 years, that original family has grown immensely powerful BUT the Bundahabis are now incredibly powerful too. They no longer play the role of active militia, but they now play the role of ideological leaders with roughly 30% of the population reliant on THEIR money and THEIR protection and THEIR business that and continue to be loyal to them. This is not good for the other 70% OR the family that found the oil. Think about it. The family that found the oil has come to realize that the bundahabis are screwing with allies' assets all over the place and are dreaming of a greater role than they currently hold. BUT they have to keep paying the bundahabis to keep things silent and stable at least at home. They want out of this relationship, but there's no way out. Not because they're angels, but because they have created something which they can't control anymore. So the family wants the bundahabis gone, although they have to continue behaving as though they believe in the bundahabi ideology and keep the deal going. The bundahabi want nothing more than to end the deal too, so the "next phase" can begin. That's a scary phase for everyone in the region, if it ever comes to fruition. The 30% shiite population wants the bundahabis gone but they have no money or power at all, except that they physically inhabit the oil fields. The 40% living in big cities and highly educated moderates want the bundahabis gone. Then there's that 30% left over, the extremely poor. The older ones among them want the bundahabis to stay, they believe there is some divine connection with the presence of the holy places. The other half are youngsters who want a higher standard of living but have had absolutely no education on how that's possible without oil and god. You have a situation where you've created a rich, ideological, powerful monster that has spread its tentacles beyond the borders and everyone is tip-toeing around the powder keg. They have the voluntary support of 15-30% of the population and the forced support of the original family, which has the support of the most powerful army in the world. A real cluster****. If this powder keg blows up, it would make terrorist groups of the region look like a hello kitty convention. So the rest of the population and the rest of the region have a difficult choice to make. Everyone is in agreement that the foreign invading imperial power is the #1 enemy - this is unanimous, even the polls indicate it despite harsh penalties for ever admitting it publicly. BUT what's the alternative? People of the region actually magically understand the concept of power vacuums and they don't want that power vacuum to be occupied by the bundahabis, who are dying for that power vacuum to come into existence. At the same, they are getting tired and poorer for sticking with the status quo. In reality, the sticking with the status quo is a strategy of waiting. Everyone in the region got real happy when they heard that the country is one of the most internet-connected countries on earth. They are hoping for a slow, gradual change and development in ideas. The bundahabis can push for censorship, but censorship these days is largely symbolic, you can see whatever you want to see on the internet these days. I can't say I know what the best REALISTIC solution would be. Those guys exist and they have money and power and can activate a LARGE militia very quickly. This is why I always say the empire came and created monsters and it knows it's going to leave the region with those monsters and no ability or education to fight them. It's very grim to think that a foreign power helped stand in the way of democratic development for 50 odd years and then will leave them with a power vacuum to be filled by these monsters which are not disappearing with hundreds of thousands of missile strikes. Citizens of the foreign power tell them they need to get rid of these monsters. How? They have no say in anything, no power. They are largely bystanders, and what they CAN do is create a power vacuum but they don't want to deal with that forever. You guys can't convince congress to do anything, imagine there was two layers of power above congress and above the oligarchy of corporations? What's terrifying about all this is d-day is coming soon. The one thing that is holding this house of cards up is oil. Oil is done. When that's done, I would be worried to keep my family in that region. There are some countries which have done relatively well in transforming oil money into non-oil economy, but those will get swallowed up because the huge majority by land, by strength, by sheer numbers live in countries which do not have any viable alternative for income. Lots of people are going to go broke overnight, and guess what happens when you pay for 50 years of silence and then your money runs out?
So many words to say "it's all the USA's fault". Anything to deflect from the real root cause of the problem, which is (wahhabi) Islam.
If you can't understand that foreign oil money is propping up the absurd Saudi regime responsible for these crimes, and that environmentalists are trying to reduce said foreign oil money, I really can't help you.
We were at fault with Iran before the Islamic revolution, so it's not like this would be a first for our government in that region.
