Same old Clippers...

"One of the best pure PGs in the game".....let's see 7, count them 7 assists in last 2 games combined. Can't and won't shoot from the outside. Wildly drives the lane with some crazy intent to draw fouls, cause he aint going to finish. No dish. No Kick....... if that is you definition of "one of the best pure PGs in the game", the LAC have him. Now add weak on D and shoot less than 0.400 while 1 shot short of most attempts on the team....... On the plus side he is an average FT shooter and occasionally makes a very good pass....

 

You automatically have two strikes against you when you put on a Clippers jersey. And to top that off, much like the attitudes toward Memphis(Vancouver), there are no teams in the NBA that respect you or fear you.

At the start of last season, I was sure the Clippers were on the way up...but now, I'm pretty sure they are about to sink back into their normal Clipper-like state. I really think part of the problem is management and the attitude that the entire organization emits towards its players.

 

does anybody remember last year,when a lot of people said: lets trade Francis for miller

i also tought the clippers would be better,bRand is a great PF. we will see if the improve i hope they will, i like that team,but i don't want them to finish above the rockets so son't improve to much

 

I'd really like to stick it to ESPN the mag. They made a huge deal about the Clipps and put them as the 5 seed. 5???????????????
Where did they put the Rockets? 9, behind the Jazz at 8. I can't believe I pay good money for such crappy analysis. Mark my words, that team will explode. They have loads of talented players coming up on contract years and many of them will get serious offers from teams with better playoff chances. Where they end up depends a lot on Duncan and Kidd in my opinion. If both stay on their teams now, maybe one of them will go to the Spurs, Kandi man maybe, when Robinson's retirement frees up money. If Duncan goes to Jersey to join Kidd, the Spurs could nab two of the Clipps. The Nets could do the same if Kidd comes to San Antonio.

 

The Clippers are a minor tragedy this year. If they had an owner that actually cared about winning they could be a contender for years with the talent they assembled. They are two deep at every position. They have the luxury to groom Chris Wilcox (I think he has as much game and potential as Amare Stodoumare)and Melvin Ely off of the bench and they have a bunch of players coming into their prime. You can really tell how the contract problems have decimated the morale on the team.

 

Aside from Clipperitis, a couple of more objective factors IMO.

#1 Their team shooting sucks. You don't count Piatkowski, that is like counting Matt Bullard or the current Steve Smith, sure he can shoot if open but if that is all you can do that is too easy to defend and leaves the defense gaping. The rest of the guards/forwards- Miller, Maggette, Q, Dooling--they are just poor outside shooters for NBA guards/forward allow collapsing of the D on the interior guys.

#2 Brand is not a "great" powerforward. He is a very, very good power forward. But he cannot carry a team. He is not Duncan good, young Karl Malone good, KG good, probably not as good as Crissy Webber either. Brand and Sheed are very good caliber players but neither of whom I think deserve the "great" label.

#3 Chemistry. Andre Miller is very good. But what he does best--breaking the other teams defense down and getting open jump shots for teammates--doesn't work that great because of #1. You put all the Clipper parts together and you realize to beat them you clog the lane both to slow Miller's penetration and the very good (but not) great low post play of Brand and the decent low post play of Kandi. They just don't have a bread and butter player or scheme efficient enough to constintely kill you.

 

You hit it with #1. Right now with Odom out, Q on DL and Jeff in Portland, the LAC have one player(who plays) that can hit the outside shot. The LAC are actually very good in the post, but an Inside/Outside game requires an Outside. Kandi needs the lane, Brand needs the lane, Miller needs the lane and Maggette needs the lane. So Kandi and Brand get doubled to heck and Miller gets smothered every time he drives. Just assign someone to Pike and put everyone else in the lane to double and smother.

 

Yeah I thought the Clips wouldn't live up to the hype...losing D-Miles hurt them worse than they ever thought, and Odom is a serious non-factor. They have no outside shooting, and Andre Miller needs to buy a jump shot.

 

Alot of people on this board would still make that trade.



Also, Brand may not be Malone, but he'd be the second best player on the Rockets right now. Miller is playing with some talent. Odom was in and out of the line up last year as well.

 

You answered the Clippers problems with #1, that and their owner is terrible.

They can't shoot worth $hit, which leads to forcing Miller to do more than he should(forced to become a scorer) and force passes he normally wouldn't. This also leads to the defense being able to focus more on the individual(Brand,Miller) rather the entire team.

 

They may have a strange owner, but they are a strange amalgam of talented fellows. I would not mind several gracing my Rox' roster.

I fear we'll be looking up to them at season's end -- I just hope we're looking up from within the playoff standings.

Next year we'll still be rising, and Candy Man will be in Miami, and others elsewhere, as well. Go Wilcox and their collection of future draft picks.

 

Nobody is "forcing" Miller. The team has adjusted to him, but he has never adjusted to a double low post offense. His game is all drive and score on O, and with 2 pre-positioned defenders waiting he is usually smothered. He can't shoot outside and therefore can't feed the post since his man always doubles without a second thought. Miller was good in a spread offense at CLE, the lane was open, there was no post to feed, and no one cared he could not hit the side of a barn at 18'. Kandi and Brand and Pike are having great years(0.507,0.478, 0.523) even Maggette is 0.466, but a lot inside. No, it is Miller that needs to find a way to make wide open 20' s so his man can't double the post, so that Miller can feed the post. He drives, draws BUT does not dish or kick. No excuse for a guard not to shoot a high % of uncovered 20' shots. No excuse for a great ball handler to drive, draw and never dish or kick. Miller's problems are lack of skills that he has to improve on.....anything else is ridiculous.

 

I agree with ya bajabill somewhat, but while Miller isn't a consistent mid-range shooter, there really isn't anyone else on that team that shoots or passes well....maybe Brand. I agree, Miller does have to get used to playing with 2 players that primarily playing on the block. All in all, it's just not a pretty situation and probably won't be getting any better 'til they get another shooter or two.

Nothing to take away from Kidd and Payton, the 2 best PGs in the league by far(IMO), but they have a nice cast that loves to constantly move all the while being excellent shooters.

 

You'll also remember at this time last year, we didn't know for sure if Francis was going to resign with the Rockets either.

Its unfortunate that the Clippers are letting contract situations dictate the team morale. You would think that these guys would be playing their hearts out with their contracts up at the end of this year.

And don't be suprised if the Spurs make a run at Olowakandi, so him going to Miami isn't set in stone.

 

It's still pretty early too. I bet they will get it together. If they don't, it gives them an excuse to not sign their own free agents.

 

Why would the Clippers get it together?

Personally, I think the Clips are massively overrated. They have:

1. A point guard who did absolutely nothing for the last team he was on - yeah, he scored points and dished assists. But they were utterly terrible as a team. Sure, one person can't make a team... but if Miller were "for real," they'd have won more than they did. Andre Miller, imo, is in Stoudamire's category. Quality PG with good court sense that can contribute.

2. Kandi sucks. The *only* thing that he has going for him is that he's a "true" center. If he performed how he does at any other position... he'd be about 7th or 8th on the depth chart. Mediocre shot, plays merely average defense... rebounds ok, but isn't a terror. I'd rather have a PF who happens to actually be good playing C. It only matters when you play LA, anyway.

3. Elton Brand... and Mo Taylor. Notice anything in common? They both averaged a good # of points for the Clippers. Brand averaged a bit more... on a bit better team... but everyone saw how dramatically Mo's points dropped when he joined a not-terrible team. Brand is a quality PF, who could start for most teams (and is certainly better than Taylor ). But he's not a true difference maker.

 

Clipper fan here, may as well chip in my $.02

First off, I think Desert Scar has made a very accurate analysis, on all three points. The only thing I would argue is that Maggette is becoming a pretty good shooter and they have two decent shooters in Odom and Q out with injuries. The "inside out" game doesn't work without good shooting, so it is pretty important that the Clippers always have a guy on the court who can nail the perimeter J. They are different from most teams in that they have a very good interior game and a lousy perimeter one.

I don't think it's fair to brand Miller a "loser" yet. Jason Kidd put up great stats on lottery teams for his first three years too. Miller isn't performing to expectation yet, but, come on, the season is only 11 games in. He did do a very good job with what he had in Cleveland. Even a player as great as Kobe can't take a crappy team anywhere. I think Miller's on par with Bibby, with better size and worse shooting. Bibby put up great numbers on a lousy team for a few years, then become an important contributor (with worse stats) on a good team. Andre should follow that same path if tightwad Sterling keeps him around.

Brand == Taylor is way off base. They are complete opposites. Brand absolutely makes the most of his physical limitations, diving on the floor, hustling like mad, he's a coach's dream. For a 6'8 guy (generous) to be #1 in the NBA in offensive boards and #2 in blocks is extremely impressive. Taylor, on the other hand, is lazy (I don't know if he's changed since he moved to Houston). When he was on the Clippers, he used to madden me with his lack of effort. There's no question he's got skills and a soft touch for his size, but he doesn't try half the time. He also was a cancer here in his last year, writing on the date of departure on his shoes and speaking out in the media. Brand may not stick around (we have no faith in the Donald here in LA), but I can guarantee he'll be classy enough to stay quiet about his situation.

Your Kandi analysis is pretty accurate. He's not as good as his numbers, and his media outbursts and pissy demeanor are "Taylor-esque". But he's still one of the better centers, talent-wise, in the NBA, so it's a wash. If he would just "bring it" every night, he'd be a force to reckon with.

As a fan, I'm fairly optimistic despite the bad start. In the last year and a half, Clippers have been a .500 team with either Odom or Brand in the lineup (Odom was stoned, injured, or out for most of last year so we didn't really see them both at once). Miller may not be all-world, but he's a big upgrade over the belligerant and selfish Jeff McInnis. So once Odom returns and the guys get a few more games under their belt to gell, we should be looking at a pretty big improvement. I think they'll be competetive for the 6-8 seeds, right there with Seattle, Houston, Minnesota, Phoenix, and Utah. It'll be interesting.

 

Hi Clippy. Welcome to the board! Always glad to have another basketball fan around.

So you feel the difference maker for the Clippers will be the return of Odom, improved shooting, and just chemistry in general (give Andre time to adjust to the team, etc.) correct?

How would you rate team morale, right now? Thoughts on who'll be kept after the season?

 

I haven't looked at the schedule, but if it's not too hard, I expect the Clippers to hover around .500 by the time Lamar returns. It is hard to say how they will do after that, because he hasn't played in so long and we don't know if the injuries will plague him all season long. If he is able to return to his 2000-2001 form, they should be a very good team.

A lot of people have forgotten about Odom, which is good in the sense that his value may be low for the impending free agency. He's really a marvelous player when his head is in the game, and could be the franchise player we Clipper fans have wanted for so many years. He brings an awful lot to the table, with his versatile game and mind boggling court vision ... as well as his off court baggage. Fun!

I happen to think that the Clippers talent is a bit overrated too, at least compared to what most Clipper fans will say. The team is extremely deep and well rounded, but it lacks a dominant presence like Kobe or Webber or Payton or Francis. Brand is a really great player, and it's hard not to root for him when you watch just how much he puts into the game. But he's not a "goto" guy because his offensive game is limited and he's not big enough to just dominate (like, say, Shaq). Odom could become that goto guy-- I think everyone thought as much after he started so strong his rookie and second years-- but, again, that is really hard to say.

I think the guys are just fine, morale wise. I don't put a lot of credit into what the media says about the contract situations. The effort is there, and they've been in most of the games, but they seem to lack poise in the fourth and have run out of gas a few times. Part of that is due to the injury situation and so many guys missing training camp.

As far as next year... Kandi is almost certainly gone. I bet Maggette is out too, because another team will make him a good offer and he's not an "essential" piece. I've got to believe Sterling will resign Miller, since otherwise the trade makes no sense fiscally (Miles has another year on his contract). It's also unfathomable that he would let Brand go, but I wouldn't put it past him. Odom is, to me, the most important component in all this, but I fear Sterling will only sign him if no team makes a big offer. If the Clippers can mange to retain the big three of Miller, Brand, and Odom, they should be a good club for many years. Of course, with our history, they'll probably just dump everyone. That'll be my last year as a fan, though.