The problem with your line of thinking is that it's not what other players get offered (especially players playing at other position) but what you get offered which sets your market value. With New Jersey being the only team left with cap space, if they don't give Scola the big money deal (maybe they'll prefer to roll over their capspace to next year), then he's not going to get a big money offer. Likewise with Brooks next year. That's going to be a different market. Less teams with cap room, the new CBA. Brook's market value will be determined by what teams are willing to pay him (and what they're allowed to pay him), not based on what Lowry got this year.
Is the contract for 4yrs/24 M,with the last year being a team option? He brings toughness to the team. I hope he will pass and shoot better with experience.
Drew Gooden is close to Scolas level. He will get slightly better than 8 million perhaps but not 10 million worth of production when you have to pad stats on a down team missing its allstar.
That's a possibility either way look at it but saving 6 million from Lowry would allow me to make a better offer to Brooks. Again every team has to play by the salary cap only the Rockets would be able to extend an offer to Brooks by exceeding the cap. Two ways to look at: 1) We lose Brooks to another team but still have Lowry 2) We lose Brooks to another team because we didn't have the extra 6 mil. Again we could lose both Brooks and Lowry and have nothing. But that would be depressing so I'll ignore it for now My point since the start of this thread is that we cannot maintain a $70 million payroll. There are going to be some casualties whether it be Lowry, Scola, Brooks or Yao. One or even two these may not be in rockets uniform after next season. I was hoping that would be Lowry and others but now 2011 looks like a scary off-season. Besides criticism, no one on this board has cared to argue against my points of salary problems looming next year. Let this serve as a warning and reminder to those who laugh now but will cry in 2011 if Yao or Brooks leave. The math says we can't afford to keep all the players we have.
NJ is the only team with the cap room to give Scola 10 million. If they don't give it to him (like if they prefer to roll over their leftover cap room), then he won't get 10 million.
Aaron Brooks has always said that Lowry is a starter playing back-up. Why would he put forward that he is TWICE the player Lowry is and demand double his contract. It just won't happen. Brooks for 7-9 million will happen, Scola for 7-9 million will happen... That is just fine and dandy... You are either really underrating Kyle Lowry, or completely overrating Aaron Brooks and Luis Scola, starters on a non-playoff team.
livingston just signed a 2 year 7 million contract... lowry is going to make 6 mill a year compared to livingston's 3.5 .. i dont think paying 2.5 mill more a year for a proven catalyst off your bench is too much and it certainly isnt something that is going to bankrupt the franchise..
Morey has flat out said we can this year, and that Les has given the go-ahead to go over the tax. We have expirings in Jeffries, Hayes, Battier, Andersen, and even Yao will lower his salary in 2011 if he stays. The Rockets only have to bite the bullet for one year, and these "issues" you bring up disappear.
Wait? what? Weren't they starters on the team that took the Lakers to game 7? Man....how soon we forget.... DD
Why would battier want a pay raise? The guy wold have to be stupid and insanely out of his mind to expect or demand a raise, at his age, coming off an injury, with his replacement already on the books. If he gets a raise it's because another team needed him and overpaid for him, which would have ZERO to do with lowry's signing. Lowry didnt set anything. His salary wasnt even a result of others setting the market. It was a result of Lebron screwing the cavs over and the cavs having zero to show for it. this has little influence on scola's signing, unless it's the cavs who also pursue him. Brooks is already suppose to get a pay raise next year. Again, no influence there either. Where exactly do you get the "6 million here, 8 million there"?? You're predicting that, it hasnt happened yet and there's no reaso to assume it will. the only guys paid aorund that amount are battier, ariza, jeffries, and now lowry. There's no trend here because battier was an old contract acquired that morey didnt set and jeffries was one we didnt want but had to absorb. both are now expiring, so they're pretty much irrelevant to your argument of throwing aorund 6-8 million at multiple players. Ariza is a bargain at the price, so there also nothing wrong there. if anything there's flexibility in his contract because there's always a market for his type and at his age. He won't be difficult to move during the length of the contract unless he has a nick anderson collapse or injury issues.
First I commend you on starting this thread. You took on an issue that isn't very popular. And your original point has alot of validity to it. But there are two points I quickly see that are flaws. First as I said earlier Lowry provides us with a lot more manageability of our Salary. Without him there is no choice but to resign Brooks and his salary may be Rudy Gay type numbers. Second, who says we can't maintain a 70 million salary. Dallas has maintained a 90 Million dollar payroll for many years. The lakers as well along with Cleveland and Celtics etc... Les is making a considerable profit on this team alot more than most teams. If we want to win we have to pay the price. if we win he will make more money. Morey is always looking for bargains on the Market. Most of out players are bargains. Lowry is not. he might even be slightly overpaid but we need him. Even with him Morey is lokng for a 3rd pg. What would we do without Lowry. We have to have him and if that makes us go over 70 mil for the forseeable future than so be it.
Thanks you may be among the few people that really understand my point. Most fans here are too shortsighted or afraid to lose a few players that they are oblivious to the real implications of signing every player on the roster to a new deal. At the end of the day Lowry, Scola, Brooks, Yao are going to look for the most money they can find. Perhaps this summer with the lack of teams with cap space left, Scola will settle for less than his desired price. But come next summer Brooks and Yao will be hard to keep if more teams have cash to spend. Also my understanding of Yao's salary is linked to his international value as a brand. Any team would be willing to pay him to sit on the bench if it meant more dollars to the franchise. That's why I see Yao continuing to make top dollar for the rest of his career because he more valuable to an owner beyond what he can do on a basketball court. As for the argument of the Mavs and others spending a ton of money, well look at the amount of bad contracts they had to deal with over the years. I just think spending $70 million should net you at least two premiere players that you can count on to perform at the highest level in the playoffs. I rather have the superstar combo or even trio instead of dividing up my money among 5-8 role-players. History has proven time and again you need top level players to win a title. Look at the last decade of champions, Los Angeles, San Antonio, Miami, and Boston all had a group of superior players on their team. Detroit is the only team to win a title without a legit superstar on the roster. With the decline of Yao, we are now a mix of young talent and old veterans patching together to make a team in the hope of making a title run. History and odds are against us.
He's not saying that they are equivalent types of players rather that they are 2nd tier level players who were overpaid relative to their status on the team and he's right on. However, I must point out that in the case of Moochie, Mo Taylor & Cato, the bad contracts were due to stupidity. If Morey follows through and matches the Lowry offer & Scola gets $10M, then that will be because of current market forces. However, cheeze is right in that the end result will be the same even if they overpay and bring both players back, it will not be enough to elevate the Rockets to a level where they can compete with the likes of LA, Boston or Miami. And going forth, cheeze makes an astute observation here: they simply can't afford a $70M payroll that won't make them a championship contender.
I agree they could both accept more elsewhere. Yao and Brooks that is. Thats why one of my main views all along is not for Morey to hings all his eggs in one basket that they would both return or that even one of them would go. The odds are good we could lose one of them So? With that In mind I would love for Morey to use Yao and Brooks in trades or one of them to completely reshape the roster into anothjer direction of players given a new shot at trying to win us a Championship along side Kevin Martin, Scola, Lowry, Ariza, and our good depth. Of course he has to be willing to field offers for Yao and or Brooks to make this happen and also be sure he is reasonable in his give backs. We should of course get allstars and superstars for them potentially but he also might need to loosen up the draft picks purse and some other role player or two to get those superstars here. If not we could be looking at both Yao and Brooks gone for nothing. Then what? IN MOREY WE TRUST STILL? That would be moronic. But hey if he wants to wing it on a prayer and a chance? Thats his thing. I would rather go for Brooks ultra value now and Yaos in trades. Thats just me. Yao for Danny Granger and Chris Paul for Brooks? Yao for Carmello and Brooks for a couple of solid players? Alot of things can happen here. Lets hope we dont get left holding the bag again like the TMac and Yao debacle. Lets hope hey dont leace us for nothing and Morey can resign them or he gets some cajones and trades these guys for some huge players. Preferably the more sure route of keeping players services by trading them away instead of hoping for resignings and no injuries in the future.
Yes they can... for ONE FREAKING YEAR. And then either the expirings turn into a star which allows us to compete for a championship, or they expire and we go back to a more feasible payroll. In fact, it's basically the price they paid to get Jordan Hill and the picks from NY. Morey basically bought these from the Knicks to set them up in position to get a star player. It's the price you pay to compete. To fault them for that is quite ludicrous.
Sure, Dallas' overspending has netted them 10 years of 50+ wins and one trip to the NBA finals. However, they are no closer to winning a title after all of this spending than are the Rockets. The Lakers and Celtics at least have NBA titles to show for their spending. Spending more money is not the answer here it's how you spend it and on whom. These aren't bad players but unfortunately, due to market forces, they stand to be overpaid and that won't do much to improve the Rockets' stock in the West.
Again the $70 million projection is for 2011 when Lowry, Scola, Brooks and Yao are signed to long term deals. That number goes up every after that so even in my estimates the number could reach $80 million by 2013 with normal bumps in salary. Basically we are looking to commit at least $70 a season for at least 3-5 years to this group of players. The question: Are the Rockets going to compete for a title with the core of Yao, Martin, Brooks, Scola, Ariza, Lowry, and Co? My judgment says the Rockets are still lacking the talent to compete with LA, Boston, and Miami. We need another all-star maybe even two after Yao's health situtation, to compete at the highest level. Finally, I guess most fans here are happy with the wishful thinking of competing because we took the Lakers to game 7 two years ago. But I am not happy with the direction we are taking.
This is the set up to trade Brooks for a Granger/CP3/Carmelo Anthony type package. With Martin, Yao, Scola, and one of the aforementioned you don't need a scoring PG you need one that plays D and passes well. That's Lowry. This is also the Moneyball philosophy, once a player like an AB hits their value ceiling you move them for better pieces just like Morey did with Landry. AB is just coming off an MIP season and everyone saw him destroy the Lakers. His value is skyhigh and that's when you sell.
