on that note, July 2013: Josh Smith forces a sign and trade to the Lakers, straight up Pau for Smith (i think Atlanta would want it at that point). The Lakers play Smith at 3, in a kind of super-Marion role, amnesty Artest to save tax, play Antawn Jamison as a stretch 4. That actually seems realistic.
Why wouldn't you just fold this thread into the already existing Gasol thread? Thread pollution. JUST SAY NO! lol
Starting in July 2013, teams operating above the "tax apron" (i.e., $74 million or so in team salary) CANNOT acquire a player via sign-and-trade. That includes the Lakers.
This doesn't seem too bad for either side. Just not sure if the money would check out well for either or both teams' cap space. Amar'e and Shumpert are also injured though
Gasol for Okafor and Trevor (I'm a Champion and former Houston Rocket) Ariza. All 3 players have 2 years left on their contracts and Okafor + Ariza's add up to Gasol's. Ariza and Okafor are being wasted in Washington and they don't really fit the youth movement there. Okafor can be another big body and grab rebounds and provide insurance for Dwight. Ariza (although I was never a fan and I'm sure many on this board concur) is still only 27 and his style would fit nicely with D'Antoni's run and gun style. With Nash doing the dribbling and getting Ariza open looks (dream scenario for Ariza .. cause we all know he can't dribble) while he also focuses on running, finishing and causing havoc in the passing lanes... could be really nice. He got a nice contract here and put up decent stats although not very efficiently here and in NO and then he got lost and I had to google him just to see where the hell he was before I thought of how he might fit for the Lakers. I'm sure Kobe could bring the best out of Ariza and it would give him a chance to revive his up and down career. Gasol to the Wizards doesn't make a whole lotta sense but nothing in Washington does. Perhaps they can use him as an "asset" or at the very least they can try Morey's failed attempt at a Gasol/Nene front court. If Morey thought of it.. it must be good right? Combine that with a Wall and Beal back court and you've got an interesting expirement.
Again, not sure I see the value for the Lakers here with Okafor. They want a stretch 4 who's willing to shoot jumpers as his main offensive move. The whole point of Gasol being unhappy is that he's not able to work in the post. Okafor has no game outside of the post.
If the Lakers really want a stretch 4 who's willing to shoot jumpers then there's not really a better candidate than Pau Gasol. The value as mentioned is mainly insurance for Dwight since he's older and not so durable in addition to foul trouble. Currently, they have Jordan Hill covering Dwight at the center spot. Jordan Hill is NOT a center. Also the depth of the Lakers is their biggest concern. Trading 1 main piece for 2 rotational players would be a huge plus for the Lakers. They have enough offensive weapons but their bench is abysmal. Start Nash, Kobe, Ariza, Artest and Dwight. This frees up the post and allows for Dwight to go to work in the half court sets and also less congestion for Nash to penetrate or Kobe to attack. Most importantly it lets them run and gun otherwise. Bench Bring in Jamison as the primary scorer off the bench, Hill as the hustle guy, Okafor for insurance and size.
Is the Lakers we are talking about. so the trade Gasol and Artest for Love and Rubio will probably happen. Heck Kahn will throw in Derrick Williams for 2 second round picks.
I'd be hesitant to give up on Bargs for Gasol straight up considering he's 5 years younger and provides similar things at half the price. Throw in Calderon and something else and you've got a typical Lakers "robbery move".
Ariza and Oak are 2 of the worst contracts in the league right now. Neither can shoot and neither fit D'antoni's system.
Pau Gasol could join Ricky Rubio at Minnesota Timberwolves Salva Carmona. Phoenix 11/28/2012 It seems ESPN.com, backed up by information from reporter David Aldridge, has let the cat out of the bag. Negotiations are taking place involving the transfer of Spanish basketball player Pau Gasol. The L.A. Lakers' power forward could be joining the Minnesota Timberwolves, where he would join up with fellow countryman Ricky Rubio. The Wolves are also set to sign Kim English from the Detroit Pistons. The Lakers would acquire the services of Derrick Williams and J.J. Barea (Timberwolves), Trevor Ariza – who would return home from the Washington Wizards - and Jonas Jerebko (Detroit Pistons). The Wizards will snap up Charlie Villanueva (Pistons), Nikola Pekovic (Wolves) and Chris Duhon (Lakers), whilst the Detroit Pistons will sign Emeka Okafor. These are turbulent times at Lakers. The team's poor start to the season has already led to the dismissal of coach, Mike Brown. Mike D'Antoni's style of play requires a different type of player and Pau Gasol once again seems to be surplus to requirements. http://www.marca.com/2012/11/28/en/more_sports/1354135375.html
More Crap... ------------------------------------------------------- By Cathal KellyColumnist 15 Comments It’s not fighting that ends relationships. That happens when one partner decides it’s not worth arguing any more. We’ve reached that point with Andrea Bargnani. No amount of verbal lashing will move this man. He’ll absorb everything this city flings his way and shrug. “Criticism has two sides,” Bargnani said last year. “Most of the time it just comes here …” — pointing at one ear — “ … and goes out here” — pointing at the other. He is a stump. A talented stump, but a stump nonetheless — immovable, unchangeable. The crucial distinction here is this: With a limited sampling of Kyle Lowry still available, Bargnani remains the most dependable offensive option on the Raptors roster. He is a star, but not the right star for this squad. “I like our team. I like our pieces,” coach Dwane Casey said Friday. “Sometimes, I don’t like the way they execute.” While he will not have been thinking specifically about Bargnani as he said that — unlike the restive fan base, it wouldn’t be Casey’s way to shift the blame onto one man — it’s hard not to read some criticism of his frustrating indispensable into that comment. Bargnani is the one who needs to become something other than a stretch-4 for this team to win, and won’t. Not can’t. Won’t. Casey has changed up in recent games, giving Bargnani multiple touches to start a game. Sometimes (as in Detroit, where he scored 34), it works. Sometimes (as against San Antonio, when he went 2-for-19), it implodes. The other expected contributions — rebounding and defensive toughness — have reverted to pre-2011 norms. Those should be constants, and they are. Almost constantly disregarded. No bench commitment to pot-stirring will make this soufflé rise. That’s up to the player. Bargnani remains the bull who refuses to see red. Despite all the talk about his slow growth, the Italian’s time in Toronto has worked like a one-time-only stimulus. The nadir after 16 games remains 2005. That year started out 1-15, prompting the arrival of Bryan Colangelo on a charger provided from the league stables. His signature move remains taking Bargnani first overall the next spring, and maybe that’s the problem. The men who run sports teams aren’t conditioned to climb down from bold stands. You show too much of your back while you’re doing that. Colangelo remains a peripheral figure this year, seldom heard from and nearly never seen. “We don’t discuss our intentions concerning player movement or acquisition,” Colangelo said Friday to the suggestion of moving Bargnani now. Like nearly all his missives, it came via email. There are few topics he’s comfortable getting into a give-and-take about right now. The club bounced immediately after Bargnani’s arrival, and has since begun a slow, inexorable decline — the only marked constant of which is his presence. Now the Raptors are quick-stepping into an off-season disaster — one in which they neither make the playoffs, nor reap a lottery pick for their trouble. Based on the current course, this ship is scheduled to launch next year with the same key personnel that drove it onto the rocks during this voyage. If the Raptors were a sitcom, they’d be Gilligan’s Island — plenty of different types on that crew, too, but crucially lacking the guy who knows how to patch a hole in a boat. Jose Calderon will be gone soon (and that’s only necessary, not any sort of cause for celebration. Toronto could learn a pan-sporting lesson in mourning the loss of old soldiers). Bargnani should be, too. It’s not clear what’s out there for him. Despite the stop-gap addition of Mickael Pietrus, what this club could really use is a dominating small forward. Rudy Gay? Not with the way Memphis has started. Denver’s Andre Iguodala? Another pipe dream. Maybe Luol Deng, whose contract looks more digestible by the day, could be gotten, but the water-treading Bulls will want to wait on Derrick Rose’s return before taking that flyer. The more you think about it, the fashionable suggestion — parceling someone with Bargnani for the Lakers’ Pau Gasol — makes sense. It may not be from a competitive perspective; assuming Gasol is healthy (capital “A” assume), does his lumpen paint presence stunt the development of Jonas Valanciunas? But that swap certainly works from the vantage point of optics. After so many years of disappointment, the Raptors should care about laying down bread crumbs to departing fans. We can all agree that something about this Raptor team needs to change. Moving chairs in the executive suites won’t make any difference at this point. There’s only one place change matters. The easiest, most potentially impactful way to do that is let go of Bargnani. Not give up on him — he’s still got stardom in him — but admit that it’s not going to happen here. It might even be fairer to him, if you’ve got an altruistic bent. However much the fans perceive him as removed and aloof, Bargnani was never that. He cares. He just doesn’t care enough to change. In another walk of life, we’d admire his stubbornness and singularity of vision. But we don’t work on teams, and so it is Bargnani’s fatal flaw. Pat him on the back, wish him luck and start over. As much as we see these sorts of things in binary — winners and losers — there is a way for both Bargnani and the Raptors to win something this year. That’s by agreeing to an amicable divorce. http://www.thestar.com/sports/baske...ndrea-bargnani-needs-to-be-sent-packing-kelly
Andrea Bargnani for Pau Gasol: Unlikely but not unreasonable by Timpchisholm Nov 28, 2012 The writing is on the wall: Andrea Bargnani has to go. The question that crops up whenever a trade for Bargnani is mentioned, though, is what could the Raptors possibly get in return for him? He has been a disappointment, say Raptors fans, so why would anyone want to take him on? Well, there is one team that could really use his particular brand of basketball, even if such a trade may never happen: The Los Angeles Lakers. I’ve been ruminating on a Bargnani/Calderon-for-Pau Gasol trade for a while now on Twitter, and the more that people try and poke holes in its viability the more ensconced I become in it’s potential. Look, it’s beyond obvious that Andrea Bargnani does not equal the talent of a future Hall of Famer like Gasol. It’s not even worth running down the reasons that Gasol exceeds Bargnani as a player because they are so numerous and plainly obvious. However, if we accept certain realities about the Lakers (and the Raptors) as things stand today, such a trade does make a lot of sense for both teams, despite the disparities between both players. First, we have to accept that Pau Gasol will not finish the season as a Laker. As much as Kobe Bryant stumps for him, Gasol no longer fits this team now that Mike D’Antoni is coach. Gasol is at his best when he’s put in the post and allowed to use his size and exceptional footwork to punish opposing defenses. Phil Jackson liked to use Gasol as a center (alongside Lamar Odom) late in games because there wasn’t room in the post for both Gasol and Andrew Bynum to be effective. At the time Gasol was the superior player so he got the crunch time minutes. Gasol is no longer the best post option in L.A., though; Dwight Howard is. Gasol has now been pushed to the high-post (or further), where his court vision and passing are maximized, but his overall scoring abilities are relegated to pick-and-pops and mid-range jumpers. In the last two Lakers contests Gasol has averaged just 28 minutes per game, as D’Antoni has looked for more floor-spacing around Howard, and in Friday’s contest against the Memphis Grizzlies Gasol did not play at all in the fourth quarter. D’Antoni’s reasoning? “I was trying to win the game.” Ouch. The fact is D’Antoni likes to have one post-bound option with floor-spacers all around him. On this Lakers team, that one post guy is Dwight Howard, because he is the best big man in all of basketball. D’Antoni has slashed Gasol’s minutes and touches and has effectively relegated him to a second-tier status on this star-studded club. He just doesn’t fit the makeup of what makes D’Antoni’s system function and won’t so long as Howard is the man parked in the post. So, let’s accept that Gasol is not long for this team. He makes two much money ($38.3-million over through 2013-2014) to be such a peripheral starter, and the Lakers have too many other needs to ignore what they could get back for him in a trade. Which routes us back to Bargnani. Right now, Bargnani is 13th amongst power forwards in three-point shooting at 33.8%, but only one player above him (Ryan Anderson) shoots more of them per game. In fact, most of the players with a higher shooting percentage have per game averages of less than one, so lets say that when it comes to true power forwards, Anderson and Bargnani are the only two starting-caliber options in their class (with Kevin Love likely to make a run once he gets back up to speed). I think it’s also fair to say that New Orleans has no interest in taking on Gasol’s salary and that Minnesota has no interest in trading Love, so Bargnani is the only real viable target for Los Angeles if they want a starting-caliber power forward that can space the floor in a return for Gasol - and if they are trading a guy like Gasol the reason to do it would be to get a starting-caliber power forward that can space the floor. The advantage to having Bargnani isn’t just his three-point shot, though, it’s the threat of his three-point shot. Defenses have to pay attention to him, which helps space the floor for tremendously, which almost makes his ability to hit the shot a bonus since he’d be more of a fourth option on this Lakers team. The fact that he can also shift defenses with his pump fake and be a legit threat in pick-and-pop situations only adds value to his fit. It’s also important to remember that Bargnani wouldn’t see nearly as much defensive attention as he does in Toronto because of who he’d be playing alongside, which should help his efficiency, as should playing alongside Steve Nash, who turned Tim Thomas and Channing Frye into assassins with his ability to get them the ball in perfect situations for them to be most effective. Let’s not forget about Calderon here, either. He is arguably the best backup point guard in the NBA, and the Lakers need that with Nash’s age being a limiting factor in how many minutes he can play. He can hit shots at a high percentage (right out to the three-point arc) and he’d likely be newly motivated if he got a chance to actually play for a title for the first tim in his NBA career. Plus, since he’s an expiring contract, he’d provide near-instant savings for a Lakers club that is running an obscenely high payroll in order to possess such high-wattage star power. It’s also worth remembering that while Gasol is a tremendous asset to be sending out, he’s not perfect. He’s 32, is in the second year of notable statistical decline (which has been attributed to coaching) and the sheer size of his contract makes it terribly difficult to find a trading partner in general, let alone one that can address specific roster needs. Of course, the Raptors would immediately brush those concerns aside if they could get a real shot at acquiring Gasol, a devastating post player with Championship experience that plays both ends of the court and could transform the team’s ability to compete just by walking in the door. He’d vault the Raptors into the Playoffs, save Bryan Colangelo’s job and give fans who are already giving up on the season a reason to pay attention again. People fear that Colangelo is too attached to Bargnani for his own good, but if a return like Gasol came about I think that attachment would soften pretty quickly. So no, Bargnani and Calderon do not add up to Gasol’s level of talent, but they bring the Lakers closer to where they need to be and Gasol would bring the Raptors closer to where they want to be and probably closer than just about any other realistic trade that one could plug into ESPN’s Trade Machine. Will it happen? Probably not, but not because it wouldn’t make both teams better - at least that’s how I’ll continue to see it until Gasol and Bargnani are playing for new franchises. http://www.thecheapseats.ca/2012/11/andrea-bargnani-for-pau-gasol-unlikely-but-not-unreasonable.html
^^^ I like how this writing claims how painfully obvious it is that Gasol is so superior to Bargnani that it isn't even worth mentioning, but then ticks off a laundry list of reason why Bargnani is a better fit for LA and why Gasol is on the decline. Gasol might be a slight upgrade to Bargnani, but it is VERY SLIGHT. And certainly not worth trading their two most eligible assets for the chance to add a declining player to their team. There are several teams out there that could get interested in Caldron or Bargnani and provide deals that MAKES SENSE. This deal isn't one of them.
