The Cat I agree with much of what you said, but if the Kings offered Webber for Mo and Rice we would take that in a New York minute. #1 Webber wanted is 120+ million, suiters had to work through Sac. #2 We were not about to part with 2 of the following 4: Stevie, Cat, Griffin and Mo, and that is what it would have taken to pryed Webber off the Kings. You can be darned sure we offered the max we could to him, but once Webber required the S & T, there just was nothing for us to talk to him or his agent about. That is why our front office moved on, they would have loved to take him on w/o breaking up the early 20 something nucleus, that just wasn't a real possibility.
Cat, I agree with you on about everything except for Collier (although you did cause me to re-think my attitude on him), and I feel that the Rockets have done well in the off-season. However, I can't believe that you would say with a straight face that you would not take Webber for Mo and Rice!! Just imagine if this deal happened and what the Rocket team would look like: SF Thomas/Griffin PF Webber C Cato SG Mobley PG Francis I would envision Kenny starting the year and then yielding to Eddie. With 3 unstoppable players in Francis, Mobley, and Webber, it wouldn't really matter how Cato plays as long as he could stay healthy. This also would be perfect for Griffin's development. It would give him a chance to play maybe more minutes and at the same time not put any pressure on him because of Webber's presence. Oh well, I can only dream, can't I?
Desert, Stone Cold... you're perhaps correct about the invites to Webber. Going off of Feigan's party line mumbo in the chronicle, I'm not sure we'll have that answered. If I may, Mango was arguing (I had this intuition too but I took a different line so if I go off on an erroneous tangent forgive me Mango) that it's somewhat disingenuous to lump cost/benefits for the whole offseason while using draft grades to inflate your total. I tried to correct the point by making sure that we counted the 3 first rounders for Eddie and the first rounder for Morris. But... I think that it is important to recognize that these deals were all separate. When you have a deal in front of you, you don't think "well I did okay last time, let's screw this one up", do you? Shandon's on the table. What do you do? "Oh we did okay draft time, maybe NY should unload some of their cap baggage on us"... "we've done okay in the past". That's absurd. For example, Carroll should have seen the quandry for the Knicks and been more aggressive. If you are poised to pounce, don't just take the scrap that someone offers you, take their piece too. Injury or not, there is noone other than CD and Rudy that would have taken Rice off of NY's hands. Sprewell has Van Gundy's vote of confidence, Houston has the rest of the Knicks. Rice was an odd man out. Anderson could have easily merited more than that just in a s&t on 12/15. He's healthy, relatively competent... won't hurt a team too badly. He's the definition of a role player.
Whaaaat??? I'm speechless. You GOTTA be kidding me!! You know, impossible as you guys are making it out to be, this BBS is looking quite foolish by spending most of the season dreaming about Webber signing here... Am I missing something? Or did anyone think that he was going to take a pay cut to play here? Or are sign and trades being left out of the picture just to prove a point? Are you absolutely SURE that the Kings would've turned down an offer of Mo and Shadon for Webber when they hadn't signed Christie yet? Don't tell me we never had a chance when I hear OP saying several times that the Rockets BELIEVED they could get him and that Francis spoke with him every day... we gave up before we even tried. I would glady give up the world's biggest shooting guard (mo) for a power player that rebounds and assists like webber does. It is foolish to say otherwise. Rose colored glasses indeed!
An alternative is not the issue. I just want you to quit taling about how we had a bunch of alternatives. You say we should have gone for Dream if we couldn't get Webber, and vice versa. That's is so naive. Dude, make up your mind....which one! and the only s&t with Dream would have been Toronto, or for Webber. Dream would have nixed the Kings move though sans Webber, for sure. wake up....Achebe. You are in Dream land. Just say you want Dream and not Rice. You can't have Webber, and you never could! Keep this up, and I am going to piss you off enough for you to give me the ASCII finger.
Come on Thanos: 1) Do you believe ANY team in the league would not have offered all their available FA space for Webber? When very good players get close to 10 million teams salivate for any superstar at 13. Common senses tells us we made it known to him our FA max was available to him, he obviously said S & T was the only possibility. 2) Because of Webber wanting all his 120+ mil (1 above), that means Sac holds all the cards meaning a) they have to resign Webber b) they trade Webber for something THEY think is worthwhile. Sac was not under a gun, they could just have "to settle" by keeping Webber. Boy they get screwed this route (not). Do you think Sac would give up Webber for anything less than a package of Stevie + fillers or a package that includes Mobes + Griffin or Mo + fillers? I would certainly not if I were them.
As Achebe and others have pointed out, there are problems with the above. If the first argument/post was inadvertent, why was the same line of reasoning still advanced 51 minutes later? Why the use of <i>free agents</i> (July to the present) in the opening sentence, then the switch to <i>offseason activity</i> (draft activty in June + Free Agency & Trades from July to the present) in the concluding statement? Draft activity should stand on its own merit and the activity in Free Agency & Trades should also have its own grade/assessment. Using the Achebe logic of inputting the draft choices used into the equation is correct. The other equation of <i>free agents</i> in versus<i> free agents</i> out is also logical. Mango
Repeat after me: 1. Chris Webber was never serious about playing for the Rockets. He just wanted us as backup leverage. 2. Hakeem Olajuwon was never serious about playing again for the Rockets. He just wanted us as leverage. 3. The Rockets were never serious about paying Hakeem Olajuwon what he was willing to play for. 4. Both Shandon Anderson and the Rockets had decided he didn't fit in here. 5. Matt Bullard was always on the roster bubble. Sooner or later we were going to have to cut him loose. 6. Glen Rice was not a gift. There are good reasons why New York traded him. 7. Eddie Griffin's additional height and weight and his stellar pro career remain purely imaginary. Thank you. This has been a public service message brought to you by unpleasant reality. Now, can we please continue this conversation without the myths.
Thanks Will. Next time give me a chance to say "when" after the first three. <font color="#DEDFDF" size="-10">HAHAHAHAHA</font>
