JV, No, I merely meant to insult the Rockets. Sorry that my post wasn't coherent. If your team goes into the FA season with the following FAs: Hakeem Olajuwon Maurice Taylor Shandon Anderson Matt Bullard Moochie Norris And you so far your team has only accomplished: a) paid Mo Taylor feel good money(he'll learn to rebound... noone's ever learned to rebound before, but he will). b) lost your ICON for a #25+ and a #54+ pick c) traded a 96 Subaru for an 89 Audi. d) lost Matt Bullard for ****. e) alienated Moochie Norris's agent beyond the point of even having a grudge ****. Your team has screwed up. The love fest bull**** was... well, bull****. The team should have pursued Webber. Instead of ardently pursuing Webber, the Rockets ardently acquired Mo Taylor and Glen Rice (and i hear myself asking 'are you ****ing serious?'). Two offensive juggernauts on a team that sports Cuttino Mobley and Steve Francis. Bravo. Bra-****ing-vo. The team will shoot the lights out. Too bad their only possessions will come from the inbounds---on.
Achebe, If your team has this group of players as free agents going into a summer: Mo Taylor Hakeem Olajuwon Shandon Anderson Moochie Norris Matt Bullard And you come out of the summer with these players: Eddie Griffin Mo Taylor Glen Rice Moochie Norris Terence Morris Your team is absolutely brilliant. Look at the personnel changes from 2001 to 2002. There are three main changes the Rockets have made to their team. Hakeem Olajuwon, Shandon Anderson, and Matt Bullard are gone. Eddie Griffin, Glen Rice, and Terence Morris are in. That's absolutely an unbelievable offseason, and probably better than any other team in the NBA's.
I'm sure everyone will agree we had a GREAT draft, maybe the greatest in Rocket history Cat (time will tel), but as far as our cap space and free agency, I'm sorry, but I second Achebe's thoughts. We had GREAT expectations for this offseason. I expected Hakeem back and had hopes of seeing a true 4 like Webber on the team. We could have been contenders with that line up. I'm sorry, but even though we obviously didn't let Hakeem go for Rice, the truth is, that is what it feels like. It feels like instead of keeping Hakeem and getting Webber we ended up with Rice and Mo, and without a center. What's with the suddenly love for the 3 in this board, anyway? EVERYONE used to say that the 3 was the least important position and now everyone is yelling that the 5 is not so important... give me break. Self-delusion can only go so far. Of course it wasn't a DISASTER by any means, but I don't think that anyone can be completely satisfied with the way things turned out.... IF we can send back Rice and somehow get Curry from Chicago, this offseason would be awesome. With Rice, I'm sorry, but I really don't feel like opening the fireworks yet...
For the love of a 3, me thinks that the zone has folks embracing the number. Hakeem was a free agent that made his decision to leave. The Rockets made an earnest attempt to retain him. Everyone is NOT yelling the 5 is not so important, or there would be far fewer Cato bashing posts and posts concerning who we may acquire at that position.
Of course it wasn't a DISASTER by any means, but I don't think that anyone can be completely satisfied with the way things turned out.... You don't think anyone can be completely satisfied with swapping Hakeem Olajuwon, Shandon Anderson, and Matt Bullard for Eddie Griffin, Glen Rice, and Terence Morris? I'm way beyond satisfied... I am esctatic. Thrilled. And I'd guess the majority of the BBS is also. The Rockets get an A+++++ for this offseason, if the Rice deal goes through and we resign Moochie.
Achebe -- Do you think we ever really had a shot at Webber? Do you think anyone ever really had a shot at Webber? Considering the circumstances (ie. Hakeem's ego-play, Fegan revealing himself as the anti-christ, etc), I think the Rockets have handled the offseason as best they could. -- We paid peanuts for a stud PF. Eddie Griffin may never fill the Dream's shoes on the offensive end but he already has the look of a defensive powerhouse. -- We nabbed two draft picks in a situation which we could've come out with nothing. The may not be top-tier, but they provide a bit a flexability in terms of fulfilling obligations (ie. Memphis). --We picked up Glen Rice (hopefully). Say what you want to say about him, but the man can shoot -- lights out shoot. I loved this deal -- we shipped out the awkward peice and found something that fits much better. I didn't want to lose Matt, and I certainly don't want to lose Mooch, but if we do, its not the end of the world. Mooch is replaceable (read:Shammond Williams). I wanted Webber as much as the next guy, probably that was never anything more than a pipe dream. All things considered, we'll be fielding a better team next season, if for nothing else, because Francis is due to breeakout
How are Free Agent signings (new signings of free agents , sign-n-trades, and resigning existing free agents) connected with the draft day trades that landed T-Mo and EG? The Rockets already had the rights to T- Mo and EG before the Free Agent period even started. Mango
Achebe is waffling like Dubya doing a political sobreity test for a group of lobbyists. We need Webber, renounce Hakeem! We got Griffin, forget Webber, sign Hakeem! Ooops, Hakeem had other ideas, why didn't we sign WEBBER!
EXACTLY Mango! I was about to post exactly this in reply to Cat's post! You hit the nail on the head!
Disingenous violation #4000 TheCat. Even if it weren't tacky to casually lump the Dream as a random commodity in your laundry list... you also neglect to mention that there are many more costs to acquiring Eddie than what you write. Eddie cost 3 first rounders. Terence cost a first rounder. In your homeristic world of the Rockets are great, rah rah rah, Hakeem Olajuwon was traded for Terence Morris. Was that a great trade? Probably not, but the Rockets didn't have a choice... PUSH Eddie cost 3 First Rounders. Was that a good move? Who the hell knows? This kid is nineteen. He's also punched out his own teammate the past two years running. Who's next? INC Matt Bullard, extraordinaire was traded for notta. F- Shandon Anderson, young and healthy, was traded for Glen Rice, old and injured. C+ So far the grade's not looking to hot. IMO, the Rockets decision to ignore Webber just to acquire Mo Taylor and Glen Rice was a mistake (in hindsight of course). But I never believed in wuvfests.
Yes, exactly. I was really happy with the draft, but I disagree with The Cat's opinion that the majority of the board would be ecstatic with the Rockets' offseason achievements so far. I guess the Rockets did what they could, but that assessment seems to have been made looking a bit too much through rose-colored glasses... Cap-wise a lineup of Francis, Mobley, Griffin, Webber, Olajuwon would have been possible...oh well, I guess Hakeem was already set to leave last season, and the Rockets somehow knew they were not going to get Webber...considering that, they did alright so far...Rice would be an upgrade over Anderson...if they manage to get LaFrentz and/or Outlaw, I will be fine with this offseason.
1) I wasn't too keen on renouncing Dream for Webber. I had in the back of my mind, the majority of the time, that Dream would sign on if Webber were in fold. Whether or not that's happy happy joy joy we'll never find out. 2) I was trying to borrow some of The Kitty's Rah Rah to applaud Mo's acquisition, when I was under the impression that Shandon and Bull were still in fold. I felt that from Jeff's posts that the entire team had agreed to come back for the wuvfest. The wuvfest was bull. 3) I've just spent 6 days in the PNW.... half of it in ZRB town, half of it in Victoria. Victoria sucks. It's a wannabe Charleston (it's literally fake) filled w/ a bunch of FEBs. Take the most annoying American, forget to brush his teeth for 40 years, and you have a FEB. I hate FEBs. Incidentally Seattle rules. It has the amentities of a big town but the feel of a little town.
Wake up Achebe! At $12.5m for Webber, Dream only gets $3.5m back, and everyone must be renounced. $3.5m for Dream....wake UP!!! Dude, don't you think this is WHY we didn't go for Webber, because we already knew Dream wouldn't sign for $3.5m to satisfy Webber, and we had to renounce EVERYONE (even Barkley) and lose them ALL! happy happy joy joy....the life of a waffling president!
But Cheb, surely as we are trying to get a 34 year old injured Rice at his contract, don't you KNOW we rolled out the red carpet (or more likely open the doors to the Men's Club) for Webber early in the offseason. I am positive we approached him, and he just never really entertained it. Chris wanted the max, he has publically said this post resigning with the Kings, it would have costs us something like Stevie + Mo or Cat + Griffin in a S & T to make it happen, and that would not be worth it. Our only hope was for Webber to get get so pissed at the Kings he was looking for revenge (so he wouldn't mind losing out on 30 mil $), and we must had had a good sense that just wasn't going to happen. If you consider what we have done over the past 3 years, I'd say we are well ahead of what anyone could have envisioned for our rebuilding. Rice, I agree, is somewhat of an odd pursuit, but it is all relative to what we lose. In SA we weren't going to have a happy camper at one of our loaded guard positions, it was better to get the better player and the more currently needed positition with the briefer contract--and Rice fits the bill. The one thing left this offseason is to trade Walt ot something similar for another center. If we do that I give us at A- for this year. That would make our offseason grades: 01 A- (drafting Griffin is the key), B+ if we lose Mooch/no center 00 C+ (getting Mo and Mooch saves the grade here) 99 A+ (Stevie steal) And an A-/B+ over the last three years, A- this if we get that center (e.g., White, Miller) and resign Mooch this year.
The offseason consists of draft and free agency both. And even if you go by free agency alone, I still give them an A. Eddie cost 3 First Rounders. Was that a good move? Who the hell knows? This kid is nineteen. He's also punched out his own teammate the past two years running. Who's next? INC We traded 3 first rounders for a potential superstar and the best player in the draft. He fills voids in both rebounding and defense, and we traded 3 average players for him. A+ Matt Bullard, extraordinaire was traded for notta. F- Explain to me how he would've made the roster? If your starters are Francis, Mobley, Rice, Taylor, and Cato, and your top bench guys are Griffin, Norris, Thomas, Langhi, Walt, Collier, and a free agent center, where does Bullard fit in? And if you don't think we'll get a free agent center, or if you don't think Collier will be healthy, wouldn't you rather have Morris? Bullard would not have been on the team anyway, so this discussion is pointless. Shandon Anderson, young and healthy, was traded for Glen Rice, old and injured. C+ If Glen Rice is so old and injured, how did he play in 75 of 82 games last year? I highly doubt he will suffer through near the same injuries as last year, and even if he does, he still played in almost every game! Did you notice how beautiful this offense and team was when Walt was hitting his shots? Rice is a better shooter than Walt, much more consistent, a better defender, a better post up option, a better leader, a better creator, etc. Shandon obviously did not fit, and he even admitted that himself. A+ on this move. IMO, the Rockets decision to ignore Webber just to acquire Mo Taylor and Glen Rice was a mistake IMO, if the Kings offered me Webber for Mo and Rice, without a doubt I would turn them down. Grade looks like an A+ to me. Cap-wise a lineup of Francis, Mobley, Griffin, Webber, Olajuwon would have been possible How? Dream took 6 million from Toronto per season, and declined over 4 million per season for us. We had about 15 million in cap room to start with. Webber would've taken 12 of that 15. There's no way Dream would've signed for 3 million per season. Keep dreaming.
And the alternative has been to... All things being equal, I'd rather have Webber than Rice and Mo Taylor. Besides, quit adjusting your arguments to suggest that Webber and Dream were an impossibility. If you're going to challenge aelliott for meaningless CBA trivia, remember how to keep things simple from time to time and recognize s&t opportunities.
