Rockets will pick 24th or 25th in NBA Draft (UPDATE: Tiebreaker lost, pick #25 it is)

..........and he's gonna be so much better than Kurt Thomas, or Diop, or Josh Powell that you'd use the pick and throw guaranteed money at him............when our team has so much greater needs.

If we lose this series with the Jazz, it won't be because we didn't have a backup center. Where did we get Deke?

I am not expecting Hibbert or any other center in this draft to be anything but another run of the mill big men which every team has at least one and most teams have a couple. Apparently you think he is going to be something more. I respectfully disagree. He's big and slow, with a mediocre skill set. For a big center to be something special in this league, he's either got to be extremely athletic (Dwight Howard), extremely skilled (Yao), or some combination of the two. We are a team that is looking for immediate contributors, guys that can come in the game and play, not projects. Fortunately for us, we hit on 2 1/2 rookies in Scola, Landry, and Brooks. Right now, our priorities of need are in this order:

1. Another scoring option
2. Point guard improvement
3. Backup center

Now, if we are able to solve #1 and #2, and we still have a first rounder to use, then I'm okay with getting a young big. However, even in that circumstance, we will, in all likelihood, still carry another big to back up Yao.

 

I can't see that there is a FA out there that will fill either of those first two needs without spending more money than we have available. Unless you can find someone to give you a player like Memphis did to LA, there isn't enough on our bench to trade for someone either... money wise or ability wise.

I am willing to bet that Magic Morey has a lot of tentacles out for people who can create their own shots and for others, but its hard for me to believe that a taller big man isn't a high priority when we have seen the competition (LA, Suns etc) finding more height and size in the interior. You can't ask Yao and a 42 Y.O. Deke to be able to pound against those guys for 82 games and have something left for the post season.

Landry, Chuck and Scola are scrappers, but they just can't guard a Shaq or a Dwight one on one.

 

Hibbert is not a project. He's unique in that he's a 21-year-old with four years of intense Big East college basketball experience under his belt. I know his college numbers weren't anything to write home about but he's huge, he's fundamentally sound and he has range on his shot. He's also a gym rat and very coachable.

I realize he's not going to be a star but this guy will be a decent rotation player for somebody in this league. 7'2" centers with his skill set don't often nosedive out of the NBA ranks.

Take a look around the league at each team's back up centers. Of this list there's what, five guys (tops) that you would rather have than a guy like Hibbert?

Atlanta - Zaza Pachulia
Boston - Glen Davis
Charlotte - Ryan Hollins
Chicago - Aaron Gray
Cleveland - Anderson Varejao
Dallas - Juwan fricken Howard
Denver - Steven Hunter
Detroit - Theo Ratliff
Golden State - Patrick O'Bryant
Indiana - David Harrison
Clippers - Nick Fazekas
Lakers - Andrew Bynum or DJ Mbenga (depending upon how the Lakers look healthy)
Memphis - Jason Collins
Miami - Earl Barron??
Milwaukee - Jake Voskuhl
Minnesota - Michael Doleac
New Jersey - Desagana Diop
New Orleans - Melvin Ely
NY- Randolph Morris
Orlando - Adonal Foyle
Philly - Calvin Booth
Phoenix - Brian Skinner
Portland - Raef LaFrentz
Sacramento - Spencer Hawes
San Antonio - Kurt Thomas
Seattle - Francisco Elson
Toronto - Andrea Bargnani
Utah - Jarron Collins
Washington - Andray Blatche

 

Jopatmc, what was your thoughts on Carl Landry before and after the draft? Alot of people said that Carl was your typical run of the mill powerforward who wouldn't even make the team. I personally am all for the rockets drafting a young big to team up with a Yao and Deke. And if Brandon Rush could help the rockets right away like you claim, then he probably won't be around at #25 to begin with. Remember alot of playoff teams will be drafting directly ahead of the rockets and have the same thing in mind as you. Swingmen are a dime a dozen.

 

I counted 11.

 

Pachulia - You must not watch Hawks games
Big Baby - Understandable
Aaron Gray - Great kid but probably the most unathletic big in basketball
Varejeo - Understandable
Bynum - Probably shouldn't even count him since when healthy he's a starter with Gasol sliding back to PF
Diop - No way
Skinner - Seriously?
Kurt Thomas - Understandable for right now. Although we are talking about a 6'9" 35-year-old center vs. a 7'2" 21-year-old center
Elson - Unimpressive
Bargnani - Understandable although he's regressed this year
Blatche - The jury is still out there. Very athletic, lots of upside but essentially brain dead as a basketball player.

 

12 for me. Can't tell how good Hibbert will be until he plays.

Atlanta - Zaza Pachulia
Boston - Glen Davis
Cleveland - Anderson Varejao
Denver - Steven Hunter
Indiana - David Harrison
Clippers - Nick Fazekas
Lakers - Andrew Bynum or DJ Mbenga (depending upon how the Lakers look healthy)
New Jersey - Desagana Diop
NY- Randolph Morris
San Antonio - Kurt Thomas
Toronto - Andrea Bargnani
Washington - Andray Blatche

 

My thoughts about Landry on draft day was we should have taken that big catfish over at LSU or even Fazekas. I have been pleasantly surprised with Landry. But......remember one thing.....we're talking about a second rounder. That's nonguaranteed money and a lot lower salary than a first rounder.

I personally feel like we have to use our first round draft choice to get a solid rotation upgrade to somebody, whether it's luther and Bjax we are replacing or Rafer or Battier. It's got to be a player that we can put in the rotation or else trade for an upgrade to the rotation. Our problems are:

1. Need better PG production
2. Need the 3rd swingman in the 6'6" to 6'8" to team up with McGrady/Battier to eat up good swingman minutes and give us solid production that will not be an obvious size mismatch on the defensive end.
3. A backup center.



Now, somehow if we can obtain a second rounder and use it on a big man like Devin Hardin, I'm okay with that. It's nonguaranteed money and a low salary with possible upside. I don't think it is wise to use our first rounder on a backup center that is likely going to be a project and play 3rd string behind Yao and another backup big man. I don't see any of these guys Hibbert, etc., as being able to come in here and give us even 15 quality minutes at the 5 slot, especially in a league that is getting quicker, and quicker, and quicker. I would even prefer Hardin to Hibbert if both were available, simply because Hardin is more athletically gifted and could possibly survive in the league with his athelticism and size combination. Hibbert, to me, is another slower 7-footer, of which the league has it's share and the Euroleagues are stashed full of. I don't get what Hibbert gives us that we couldn't get with a minimum salary signing of a big man with experience.

 

Vin Baker, Maciej Lampe, Jake Tsakalidis, Loren Woods.....

If this fatally flawed strategy is your idea of finding Deke's successor than I seriously have to question your judgement. And no, Raef LaFrentz is not the answer....nor is he even a free agent to begin with.

I respect your opinion greatly, jopat. I know you're a big Brandon Rush guy and I understand why. I just think you're way off in judging this draft. This draft is simply too stocked with capable 7-footers for us to pass on one at pick #25.

I also think Hibbert vs. Hardin is not even close. People have been using the "He's raw but just wait..." defense for Hardin for what, all four years now? Hibbert's game is NBA ready, his fundamentals are solid and he could definitely do the same things Deke is doing right now, IMO.

 

Hibbert's going to be taken in the late teens. It's usually a project or international who falls.

 

And what exactly is it that Deke is doing? If Yao don't get hurt, he never sees the floor. Then he becomes the starter. And what do you get? 20 minutes max and he's ineffective if the opponent goes small. All he does is prevent opponents from going big because they know we can bring him and he will block shots because he is an established shot blocker. Look, a rookie can't do that.....unless......possibly they are Greg Oden. Slow 7 footers are a dime a dozen my friend.

Yes, I'm a big Brandon Rush guy. Two reasons. He plays a position of higher importance and greater need on our team at this time. We need a 3rd swingman to eat up 30 minutes and be productive MORE than we need a backup center. Second, I think he's a player. But I don't know for sure even if Rush is the answer. I simply believe if he is there at 25 and we can't get a trade done to add a 3rd swingman, that he represents the best value. The other need we have is point guard improvement. I haven't seen enough of that kid from Tennessee, Lester somebody, to have an opinion on whether he is a solution. But he's from a small school. Odds say he's probably a project. Rush is coming from a top quality program that plays the top teams in the NCAA and he's proven productive at that level. So, I think Rush represents the best bet if he is available in the draft.

But in all actuality, I'd rather fill the swing position, and the point guard position, and the backup center position with established NBA players, players that we know what we are getting because our window is NOW, not 3 years from now.

 

What is Deke doing? It's not like Deke comes in, takes 20 shots and aims to fill up the stat sheet. His role is pretty simple in all actuality: clog the paint, clean the glass, block/alter shots and score if you can. He plays that role in small minutes when Yao is healthy and extended minutes whenever Yao is hurt. This is a role I have no reason to believe Hibbert couldn’t fill immediately.

I also don't think his lack of speed is such a detriment either. We're a halfcourt team that barely gets any fastbreak/transition points. Our players don't fit that mold. Deke is slower and less agile than Hibbert yet his lack of speed hasn't really been exposed in either year that Yao went down. I really think these bigger centers can definitely still work given our slower, grind-it-out style of play. Not a problem in my book.

I have nothing against Rush and i'd be happy if we ended up getting him. I agree on his NBA-readiness, however I don't think it's realistic to expect him to be the immediate weapon that you're projecting. 30 minutes for a late first-rounder? Stranger things have definitely happened but if we're planning on giving that many minutes to a late first-rounder and essentially banking on his success as our only source of swingman depth, we’re definitely taking a massive gamble.

I would agree that a quality back up swingman is more important than a quality back up center if Yao hasn't missed half of the season the past two years. Sure, we all hope Yao's injury ridden days are behind him but what's the contingency plan if they're not? Where are all these cheap, useful back up centers that you speak of? I don't want to end up with another DJ Mbenga, Primo Brezic or any of the other stiffs we've experimented with that I mentioned in my previous post. If Deke retires, we'll have a serious need at the position. With Hibbert, at least you get a young but very experienced 21-year-old that's both NBA ready and coachable. Add to that his rookie contract and the fact that you wouldn't need to touch the MLE to sign him, I think that's the most logical approach to both fill a need and not sacrifice part of practically our only weapon, the MLE.

 

All I know is whoever we really want... the Jazz are going to take.

 

Roy Hibbert should be gone by the time we pick. I wouldn't mind if he fell to us, but he's had a fairly dissapointing season and his weaknesses are obvious. Drool over his potential all you want, but there's a good chance he'll be another stiff.

And say no to Brandon Rush. The guy was quite the player at Kansas, but he's got no skills on the NBA level. He's a clone of his brother, Kareem. I don't know what kind of scoring abilities you guys see in him, he's a spot up defender at best.

 

His name is Courtney Lee, and he should be there at our pick...

 

Courtney Lee seems like 6'4 but he is a tough and solid player. If he is there, management should go for him. I hope we can get an 2nd rounder like Landry as well. I would like to take a gamble at Nathan Jawai at the 5. He is skilled and can score,one shouldn't expect him to be a Scola but I feel he could become very useful in the long run as a backup to Yao.
Landry should be signed with part of the MLE,and the rest should be spent on the best available FA.Players like James Jones,Mickael Pietrus,and Matt Barnes will probably be available as UFA's. My preference is James Jones because of his ability to shoot the 3 and play at the 3/2.
I certainly would like to see an improvement at the 1 but there doesn't seem to be anyone of note around the 25th pick and Calderon is an RFA. We can't trade for a better PG.

 

Does anyone think we could get Patrick O'Bryant from the Warriors for spare parts (maybe Novak and a 2nd rounder)? He looked great at Bradley, and he's still just 21. He'll never get used by Nellie, and I'd like to just give him a shot if nothing else.

 

He is actually an unrestricted free agent this year, and some articles from teh Bay Area say the doubt he will be resigned. He played in the development league a lot the past two years, so he may be ready to get some NBA time.

I'm up for giving him a look, but he seemed to be a bit more of the slow lumbering center type, not sort of the athletic time to contrast Yao, but if he is cheap and productive, it matter's not to me.

 

Hopefully he'd jump at a chance to be tutered by Deke to back up Yao. He'd definately get more PT here than at GS.

 

Pick up O'Bryant for a song as an UFA, and then try to find a good attacking swing player, maybe overseas at that spot.

DD