1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Rockets Players' Advanced Statistics: You'll be surprised...

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by The Jabberwock, Dec 21, 2013.

  1. The Jabberwock

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2013
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    26
    Hi all!

    Judging by dry NBA stats only -
    (Based on NBA official advanced stats. See table image below, in spoiler)

    1. Rockets' best players in terms of Team's Defensive Rating
    (How much opponents score on us per 100 possessions)
    are (In this order):
    - Casspi
    - Asik
    - Garcia
    - Bev
    - Harden

    2. Rockets' best players in terms of Team's Offensive Rating
    (How much our team scores per 100 possessions)
    are (In this order):
    - TJ
    - Harden
    - Parsons
    - Casspi
    - Bev

    3. Rockets' best players in terms of Team's Net Rating
    (The score difference between us & the opponent per 100 possessions)
    are (In this order):
    - Casspi
    - Harden
    - Bev
    - TJ
    - Parsons

    4. Rockets' leading players in terms of Team's Pace
    (How many possessions we have per game)
    are (In this order):
    - Casspi
    - Lin
    - D-Mo
    - Garcia
    - Parsons

    Surprise! Statistically, we play our best D (and fastest pace) with Casspi!

    [​IMG]
     
  2. EnergyGuy

    EnergyGuy Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2013
    Messages:
    466
    Likes Received:
    18
    Howard a no-show?
     
  3. PDJACK7

    PDJACK7 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,073
    Likes Received:
    256
    This is why I hate advanced statistics. It means nothing most of the time.
     
  4. Jenopogi

    Jenopogi Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    24
    this kind of data makes me not like stats anymore.... lol.
     
  5. ItalianRocket

    ItalianRocket Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    27
    This just proves that Asik is a top 3 defensive C and better than Dwight in that department Even though he is surrounded with minus defenders.
     
  6. munsteur

    munsteur Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    16
    Just wait for a lecture by Torocan later in the day
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. DraftBoy10

    DraftBoy10 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,089
    Likes Received:
    42
    I think if you give Dwight a defensive coach he does better than Asik in regards to impact, but without one, and we're telling them to use whatever principles they've learnt-- Asik is ahead.

    His 1 on 1 defense is excellent, his positional defense is great, and his defensive rebounding is top tier. But in regards to changing shots, not letting people in the paint, and being just a dominant shadow in the paint..Dwight wins.

    Ultimatley though, when we face the Blazers and we need 1 on Aldridge and 1 down low(same applies to dirk & the Mavs), the Pacers(with West & Hibbert), the Heat(to absolutely shut down the paint), the spurs(keep 2 paint shadows would be great for their beautifully executed offense), the Thunder(with their size), and Grizzlies(with their size)-- we need both players there.

    We won't beat those teams in a 7-game series, unless Terrence puts on about 10lbs and learns how to positionally defend these players, or Omer suddenly is happy about his role.

    Those teams are the teams we need to worry about and why having Omer is so important.
     
  8. jtr

    jtr Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,470
    Likes Received:
    275
    It only means something when the OP has the knowledge and understanding to present it correctly. For instance in order to do such an analysis correctly you have to understand if the players involved are playing against other teams starters. You also have to understand exactly what teammates are on the floor with them. And you have to understand which lineups have a statistically significant number of minutes. The only quick way that I know how to do this is in the spoiler below. At this point in the season I would not consider any lineup with less than 30 minutes.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. phantoman

    phantoman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,546
    Likes Received:
    273
    Take with a grain of salt. It doesn't take in to account total mins played. Often times the bench unit does play at a faster pace because there is do Dwight or ISO ball. The ball is shared which just shows that our bench can out score anyone else's. The defensive rating is because we play superior transition bball.
     
  10. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,000
    Likes Received:
    15,464
    Casspi currently shows up in 9 out of the 10 top 3-man combinations (in terms of point-differential per possession) which have appeared in at least 10 games.

    I think this is a reflection of the fact that we've been at our best (had our biggest runs) with a "4-out" lineup. But it can be a liability against some physical teams that are able to defend the 3 well (like Indiana). It thought we were at our best yesterday with Smith and Howard in the front court.
     
    #10 durvasa, Dec 21, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  11. Nubmonger

    Nubmonger Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    67
    Small
    Sample
    Size
     
  12. Classic

    Classic Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,101
    Likes Received:
    608
    That's what I saw too.
     
  13. The Jabberwock

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2013
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    26
    27 games? Small?

    I beg to differ...

    Ine third if the regular seasin, man!
     
  14. The Jabberwock

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2013
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    26
    Corrected:
    One third of the regular season, man!
     
  15. WinkFan

    WinkFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    3,987
    Likes Received:
    96
    Yeah, this just doesn't actually do that.
     
  16. The Jabberwock

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2013
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    26
    Thanks JTR.

    I agree it's not bias-free, but it's NOT all about playing
    other teams' 2nd stringers instead of starters.

    If this was the case, solely, then Garcia, Brooks and Lin should have had the same rating (Defensive, Offensive & Net) that Casspi has, which they don't, and Bev should have been quite low on D-rating, like other starters, but he's ranked high.

    So I guess there must be at least SOME personal merit in play here... :)
    No one can be a BAD defender, like Casspi is often mistakenly labeled, and still consistently hold the TOP spot (or one of the top spots) of D-Rating in the team.

    False stats tend to regress and even up in the long run.
    With sample size growing - this one seems to be legit...
     
  17. kingdragon22

    kingdragon22 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    9
    casspi had those stats offensively, against Detroit.

    13 points shooting 5-9 + 7 assists and 6 rebounds(only 1 TO)

    and was still getting by far the most hate in the game thread.

    I just don't get it.

    he's +- this year is great
    he's shooting percentage are good
    he give you effort, energy and hustle from the bench every game.
    and...

    he's getting paid the vet minimum, next year also

    +

    it appears that his defensive rating are not so bad also.

    what else do you except from him?? :confused:
     
  18. SunsRocketsfan

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    6,232
    Likes Received:
    451
    Casspi for mvp!!!
     
  19. kuku

    kuku Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    125
    You still don't get it, do you?

    NetRtg, DefRtg, and OffRtg are all RAW data. The real story is that Casspi is a below average defender and has been riding on the coattails of Harden and Dwight. Those ratings do not reflect the player Casspi is. Here are more data and questions for you to explain.

    Here are Norris Cole ratings:
    http://stats.nba.com/teamPlayers.html?TeamID=1610612748&MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame
    He leads Heat in NetRtg. Does that mean he is the best player on a championship team? And no one should say he is a bad defender by his DefRtg when in fact he is one of the worst defenders on the team.

    Mario Chalmer led NetRtg and had one of the best DefRtg for Miami last season:
    http://stats.nba.com/teamPlayers.ht...eType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame&Season=2012-13

    Now you have a whole season of ratings for Chalmer, does that mean he was on the same level as LeBron???

    I am very interested in listening to your explanations.
     
    #19 kuku, Dec 21, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  20. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

    Joined:
    May 15, 2000
    Messages:
    28,028
    Likes Received:
    13,046
    With particular focus on how Lin is actually better than Beverley. :)
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now