Great thread. Maybe we can look at some instances when the plays failed, see how defenses succeed against the sets? One thing that bugs me is seeing defenders who are around the painted area without a care in the world. These guys just wait for the shot or the drive. Back picks, any off ball movement, would be great just to test their defensive discipline. Make the defense guard 5 guys, not 2. I thought it would be great to see Motiejunas in PnR action. Maybe his picks aren't solid enough, but I imagine he would be able to finish around the rim.
Perhaps down the road. Breaking down defensive coverages is pretty boring for the most part though. Most teams more or less do the same things. Watch out for how the Rockets play Ryan Anderson in pick&roll situations today, though. In the prior games against the Hornets they've really put an emphasis on staying with Anderson at the 3-point line, even if it comes at the cost of (guard) penetration. Yeah, I've been thinking about this myself. It probably would give people a better picture of what works and doesn't work and perhaps more importantly why it at times doesn't work. The thing is, there are so many things that can go wrong -- whether it's offensive execution, lack of skill, a certain defensive game plan or whatever else defenses may do disrupt whatever the Rockets are doing, it would simply take too much time to point out anything that would give you a good picture. We'll see... maybe I could do something on a game by game basis of two or three things that went wrong here or there. Speaking of game by game stuff, does anybody who watches the Sixers regularly, know if the post-up setting below (2nd clip) is something they use on a regular basis? The Hornets went to this setting vs. HOU three days prior before the Sixers did the same exact thing out of a timeout against HOU. Playbook overlap or something Doug Collins saw when watching film on the Rockets and thus drew up in the huddle? <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tc-AVhnpLko" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Today, the Rockets' Flex Action out of "Horns" formation (also referred to as "V-Set" or "A-Set"), which the Rockets are using pretty sporadically (they'll go to it 5-6 times one game and than not use it at all the next 3-4 games). They have gone to it on a pretty consistent basis as of late, though. I couldn't tell for sure, as I rarely watch NBA games involving bottom-feeders, but the vast majority of the league runs some kind of action out of horns (I'd guess close to 90%). The Rockets play call for Horns is "Elbow". The Rockets -- like in one of their BOB plays that I broke down a few days ago -- go to Flex Action out of Horns, which is probably the most commonly used action out of Horns. Teams will integrate different wrinkles here and there -- the Raptors will go to a dribble hand-off up top, the Nuggets have a wrinkle to set up McGee for an alley-oop, etc... -- but the initial action is pretty much the same. <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/yp7eXaHrU7Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> As you might be able to see this action is easy to run and you generally get a decent look out of it -- though some players tend to fall in love with the semi-open 18 footer. Flex action, like most actions run out of horns, doesn't necessarily require you to have a strong play-maker on the floor, which enables coaches to go with some lineups that otherwise might not be able to create good shots in typical pick&roll settings. Obviously, the action starts of in horns. The PG passes to one of the bigs at the free-throw line (area) and sets a flex screen for the wing in the corner opposite of the big who now has the ball. Immediately after setting the flex screen the PG gets down-screened by the other big. The big with the ball can now hit either the wing cutting through the lane or the PG coming off the pindown, like the Rockets do here: <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PMOGKbK_9XE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> (Click the spoiler to continue reading.) Spoiler Or here: <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5djWKSy-x2I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Or here, where Kaman comes a step over to take away Lin coming off the pindown curling, leaving Asik with some space to get to the basket. Asik ultimately ends up scoring, but this is a good example of where Asik limits our offense. You just can't trust him to make these plays on a consistent basis. If the anything the Spurs run break downs, they go to a some type of screen-and-roll or a two-man game with Duncan or Splitter, even. Can't do it with Asik. Can't post him up and expect to bail you out, either. <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7G4Q0Ut7_3E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> In this clip Harden isn't open coming off the pindown, which triggers the secondary option of Cook coming of the pindown on the other side. <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wC1jNOmtVv4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Here the Lakers switch the initial screen action, triggering Harden to coming of the pindown on the other side. The spacing isn't great on this possession and Lin won't get this open if Sacre gets up higher, so that Kobe doesn't have to help (Sacre was terrible on D all game). Still, teams will give Lin these type of shots if they have to and he'll have to knock them down to keep the defense honest. <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PQTW7-Z7tOc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> On this possession the Rockets go to a simple two-man game after Harden doesn't have a great look initially. <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/X4Grg7OK3e0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> If the defense takes away the pass to the PG coming back up top off the pindown, the Rockets will go to a hand-off on the other side, like they do here against the Pacers. The Pacers initial defense here is textbook actually. Stevenson forces Parsons right into Augustin, who bumps Parsons -- giving Stevenson enough time to recover -- while staying right there with Beverley (who perhaps didn't release quite fast enough here after setting the flex screen). Either way, the Rockets go the the hand-off, and though the Pacers again do a good job initially by preventing Delfino from turning the corner, Pendergraph and George ultimately run into each other, giving Delfino just enough space to hit Asik for the dunk. <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/B7tJhry-zSY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Great analysis, I hope all the Clutchfans that say the Rockets don't run plays find this thread. McHale has said that because our team is so young, that our playbook isn't as large as some other teams. It occurred to me that maybe as our team learns additional offensive plays, that our defense may actually improve. I'm thinking that if another team runs a play we are familiar with, our players may recognize it and defend it better. I can see where having the youngest team in the league is indeed a challenge for the coach, and requires patience.
HMMMHMMM, Wow, excellent examples of Horns across the NBA with the flex action screens. And I agree that the Rockets will go games without doing this. My belief is because we can't actually pull off the double high-post part of the A. Some team will play a defense that completely disrupts it. They will sag into the lane and, thus, prevent the high-cut off the flex. If you can take away one flex option, then it is no longer flex and the defense wins. I believe Coach actually tests Horns at the beginning of each game to see what the defense will do. He will abandon it against certain defense...and rightfully so,,,until we get a high post option than can destroy a defense which overplays the flex action of Horns. make sense? man, I wish youtube existed back when I had time to diagram these plays for cfnet. I remember doing this Flash, lol.
I agree. Not to say HMMMHMM needs help, but I'd like to help by pointing out our defense against the plays he posts. Best I can do though is give game and time of the play with description, just don't have enough time anymore to make vids and drawings. So sad
the fact that Coach doesn't "run these plays" all the time, is because I always say...don't look at the offense...look at the defense. But youtube never shows us defense. it's weird. The NFL shows us defenses...but not NBA. You have to love defense to understand everything the HMMMHMMM is showing us, because he is only showing us offensive plays. Not defensive. The Horn...The Weave...The Spread PnR...we have all this....but defenses take us out of this...which is why you must look at the defense...and why Harden rocks Defense of the opponets is why it appears we are not running Coach's plays Does anyone understand me?
I hope that this young matures and learns to react to defenses by running alternate plays, when the first play is well defended. It sucks to see the ISO as the consistent fall-back to busted plays (or tired legs).
The Rockets entire offense is based on guard penetration, same with the Spurs. Guard penetration sets up open 3's and cuts to the basket. Part of the problem I see is that we cannot effectively run any power post offensive plays which other teams run and are needed in the post season.
*almost entire offense, would love to be able to run the FLOPPY or STRONG with a skilled 4 and Harden and Parsons.
Well, then what about the games (and there have been more than a handful those) where the Rockets didn't went to horns (flex action) once? Data suggesting that teams are defend the action well? Film suggesting as much? Gut? Randomness? We really can only speculate. Maybe you are right that some defenses defend it in a way where the Rockets don't think it makes sense going to it (anymore), although I don't think you can completely disrupt the action. You can take certain options away, but there should always be a decent counter option available. FWIW I think we mostly go to horns when Douglas is in the game, which would make sense because Lin sure seems better served in pick&roll action then flex action, whereas Douglas is better coming off of screens than creating off pick&rolls. I think this is also the case with other actions. The Rockets seem to go to wheels (the Stagger option) or the Bucks Flex Based SCS set mostly when Harden and/or Delfino are in the game. Again, this would only be logical, as you want to run these sets for guys who can shoot off the catch or create off the bounce in case the defense closes out too hard. Not quite sure what you are trying to saying by "our" defense against the plays that I post (the Rockets offense[?]). Do you want me to highlight the Rockets defense? Just the defense against the plays the Rockets run themselves? The defense of other teams against what the Rockets run? Anyway, certainly feel free to request certain game sequences. Just know that out of I usually delete the game tape from my PC after "logging" it to not clog up my hard drive. I guess I could keep it on there a day or two after the game has taken place, so you and whoever else wants to point out something can still make video requests. Sure. Obviously plays break down and will force to the offense having to go to secondary options and at times ultimately into scramble mode. Some of it is obviously the defense taking things away and some of is failed offensive execution. I've tried to point out the defensive coverages in most of these posts. I think you may be asking for me to highlight when the actions failed, to see how defenses succeed against them, like JeffB was suggesting.(?) Again, the best I may be able to do is a few clips here and there. Doing something more diverse just would take too much time otherwise. It already consumes a lot of my free time as is. I hope you understand. As for the NFL-NBA remark, I'm no football expert by any means, so I might be off here, but IMO there's a significant difference between the two sports. You just can't quite attack on defense in basketball like you can in football. Defense is way more reactionary in basketball. You can be physical, aggressive in your coverages, etc... but in football you simply have way more options to attack. Blitzing a guy in basketball will more or less look always the same. In football there are like a gazillion ways to blitz. I mean, it's common sense, really. More players equals more scheme options. In basketball, teams for the most part use the same coverages anyway. Sure, some team might play most pick&rolls soft, whereas another might show all game and some of the rotations might be slightly different, but it's not like that's preventing you from running spread pick&roll. You just gotta be ready for it and be able to adjust on the fly, if needed. Finally with regards to what the Rockets end up running on offense -- again, this is somewhat speculative as I'm unable to watch Rockets games in person -- but I think McHale rarely actually calls out plays himself. Maybe someone who does go to Rockets games frequently can comment, but McHale has said in the past that he prefers not calling plays and the team figuring it out on their own, in part to keep the pace up. Certainly there's a game-plan in place and coaches may tell players what they think might work best on a nightly basis, but just from watching the games on TV it seems like lots of the Rockets offense is just early offense evolving into half court offense and the players calling out plays themselves more often than not. I don't think there's a definitive answer. It really depends on the personal. On both sides. Switching will indeed make sense at times. Sagging off certain personal and clogging the lane makes sense at times like heypartner pointed out. I think ball pressure is always a good way to disrupt off-ball action and I'm a fan of teams like the Pacers that generally are physical on screens. Otherwise you just gotta stick to your principles, be sound and communicate. Edit: Here's an example of the Spurs' defense against the Knicks Flex Action out of horns: <iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oBMMh6s2ALY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> With Chandler being the off-ball big, Duncan can sag way off him to clog the lane. Obviously you can only do this against non-shooting bigs. Splitter does the same thing against Camby, who isn't much of a shooting threat from that far out either. I haven't noticed teams doing this against the Rockets too much, though opposing big obviously can and at times will sag off Asik or Greg Smith some.
Today, the Rockets' primary sideline out of bounds ("SOB" or "SLOB") action, which, like most of the offense, is quite basic. It starts off with zipper action, which coaches will use to start off all kinds off SOB action. In the Rockets case they'll usually go to a simple screen-and-roll up top with shooters spread across the court. Some teams will play the pick&roll "soft" (also referred to as "sagging", "shadowing" or "dropping and plugging") -- usually when the opposing big is slow-footed or when screener and ball-handler aren't outside threats -- to prevent deep dribble penetration. The guy defending the screener will drop back and stay between ball-handler and basket. If the guy defending the ball-handler goes over the screen, the ball-handler will look to collapse the defense and depending on how the defense plays it he can either pass it to one of the shooters spread across (like Harden does in the first clip in the video below), hit the rolling big or even get to the basket himself. If the guy defending the ball-handler goes under the screen, the ball-handler usually can pull up for an open jumper (like Lin and Harden do in clips 2 & 3). Against Lin teams might be able to get away with "soft" (and under), but Harden will burn that coverage most of the time. <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AXbWci1g4wU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> (Click "Show spoiler" to continue reading...) Spoiler Another coverage teams will go to is "level" (also referred to as "feathering" or "soft show/hedge"), where the opposing big will try to prevent the ball-handler from turning the corner without coming all the way up. If the opposing big is somewhat agile he might be able to stay in front of the ball-handler (like Jason Smith does in the first clip below), however if the screener set a solid screen, forcing the opposing big to stay a dribble or two longer with the ball-handler, there often still will be an opening somewhere. This coverage can also backfire if the your bigs aren't quite quick enough and/or a poor defender (like Robin Lopez & Chris Kaman) and thus not able to prevent the ball-handler from turning the corner (see clips 2 & 3). <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lTn2k33MuCE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Then, there's your basic "hedge/show", which in theory might be the best coverage against this Rockets team. Obviously the Rockets know this as well, so the Rockets bigs are taught to slip the screen the moment they see or feel the opposing big coming up to hedge. In some cases the Rockets' bigs won't even come all the way up to set the pick, but rather fake the screen and make a basket-cut. <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bu_OfiA_WTI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> And yes, like I've seen some people note, the Rockets indeed will slip screens not only in SOB situations, but against early hedges, traps and when teams are "downing" ("icing" or in the Rockets case "blue-ing") pick&rolls (forcing them to the side/baseline). Because it's the logical thing to do. <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/c_6lJpbpStI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Back to the SOB setting, there's another wrinkle the Rockets will go to to keep the defense on their heels. It starts off in the same formation, however the big will only fake to come up for the screen&roll and instead set a down-screen for the guy in the corner, who can either come of the pindown for the jumper or curl towards the basket. <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UXdjRLtO84Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> In that last clip in the video above, although it obviously still ends up working out, Greg Smith not faking coming up for the screen up top makes it a bit easier for the defense to key in. In the clip below Smith again doesn't fake coming up for the screen up top and with Barea sagging off Douglas, the curl option gets taken away, in which case the Rockets will go to a hand-off out of pinch post. <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DKxhJUPyNdA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Pretty simple stuff, yet quite effective when well executed, which, again, IMO would be a pretty good description of the Rockets' system in general.
another good effort. i am an old school guy. i am always thinking about defense. how does rox defense SOB? i still believe switch defense is the best one, especially with lin. lin shows the capability of defending big player.
Don't have as much time currently, so just a quick follow up to SOB Zipper and the Rockets bigs slipping screens: Against the Blazers the Rockets out of SOB went to the pindown/curl option for Harden, which the Blazers denied him by overplaying him. The Rockets countered with Harden simply cutting baseline and coming off a Patterson screen for the open jumper. Oddly enough Patterson for once became the beneficiary of somebody (Aldridge) not boxing out. <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0fAm8wSw7PE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> To follow up on the Rockets bigs slipping screens, to open up the game against the Blazers the Rockets went to "Loop", which they like to use to set up various stuff. In this case Asik comes up for the screen&roll with the floor spread, leaving the whole point open. Harden appears to be seeing Hickson come up for the hedge and by swinging the ball to Lin, Asik can dive to the basket with only Aldridge being there to potentially stop him. Aldridge doesn't recognize what's going on quickly enough and thus doesn't come over to help, resulting in Asik getting a wide open dunk. <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5I3XaaXyMLw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Harden is a stud with these no-look skip pass bullets by the way. Well, most teams run different stuff out of SOB (Sideline Out of Bounds), so there really isn't an answer to your question. In the GS game the Warriors did went to SOB Zipper to high screen&roll with Jack and Bogut, which the Rockets defended "soft". <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bBCbi73Crfc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> The coverage usually differs depending on the opposing personal, though. I think a lot of teams like to avoid switching if at all possible, because it usually creates mismatches across the floor. If you have similar players at multiple positions switching can make lots of sense, though.
