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Rockets offense with Lin 'playmaking' out of PG position

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by mike_lu, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. daspydamayn

    daspydamayn Member

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    here is some data #transparency

    4 lin threads:
    Free Jeremy Lin
    Jeremy Lin is a joke!!!!
    Calvin Murphy: "Where was Jeremy Lin?"
    Rockets offense with Lin 'playmaking' out of PG position

    there should be #protocol with these threads
     
  2. StevieCrossover

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    Does the rockets even have a point guard? It just seems like anybody brings the ball up court
     
  3. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    This won't work because teams will just blitz Harden. Tony Douglas is not a threat to anybody. At least the threat of harden/Lin as potential penetrators keeps the defense some what honest.
     
  4. slowturtle

    slowturtle Rookie

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    The situation is really simple.....JLin plays better and Houston wins. And he doesn't have much far to go.

    - 1 A better attitude. It must be really mentally daunting on a young kid to go from covers of magazines. Lauded as a Hero. Thousands greet you. The media at practice wants to talk to you and no the other players......and then it all hit.....You actually have to work at the game over the summer than just flying around. But what is really concerning is watching him during game time....
    a) You should be the first one of the bench when there is a good play.
    b) Less directing traffic during the game or telling other players things. Respect is earned. Until you earn it from your new teammates....then you can go and give them advise.
    - 2 less turnovers per game. Its like every game there is a turnover or two from him that is just plain odd. Turnovers I have never seen from a starting PG after 40 years of watching NBA. Its like he finding new ways to do it.

    - 3 more buckets from him per game. Well, I'm not going into the shooting thing. We all know it is not there right now. Especially toward the later quarters.

    -4 No more hiding during offense! What kind of crazy ass play is driven up where you have the PG hiding in the corner? When Harden has the ball, Lin is just standing there. MOve kid..move!!! Set a screen. cut. Don't hide in the corner. Its starting to look really ridiculous when a starting PG is purposely trying to hide and avoid the ball.
     
  5. adamzee

    adamzee Member

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    that might be the case, but in the meantime i can understand the rockets letting harden run to show to gauge just how much he and lin can handle.
     
  6. mike_lu

    mike_lu Member

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    Hey man, it ain't personal, just some more of my thoughts.

    Harden may look like he can be a good PG because he has decent assists numbers and can handle the ball. But he isn't. His assists mostly come from going iso, drawing defenders, and when he doesn't go all the way or step back for a jumper, he'll try to find an open shooter for a 3pt shot. Because he is so tightly defended, he will be able to find some open guys. Another one he does well is a PnR with Aldrich, with Aldrich rolling to the basket.

    These types of plays can be done as a secondary playmaker, or off broken plays/offense.

    But these types of plays, despite the assists it leads to, say little about his ability to run a team, and set up an offense.

    I would guess one of the reasons the Rockets coaches had to go back to Lin running PG was because while Harden can run the PnR and iso-dish plays, he wasn't really able to run real 'team' plays. Things more sophisticated. And find your players the best shots. Like how Patterson was doing low-pot before vs his more bread and butter 12-18ft jump shots in the last two games. And as you add in more offense to the playbook, it becomes more and more obvious who needs to run point. And hence Lin is back, perhaps by necessity.
     
  7. mike_lu

    mike_lu Member

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    No, they didn't mix well because Harden was running point and Lin spot-up SG. When Lin ran PG and Harden SG (with secondary playmaking responsibiliites), aka the first two games and the recent two games, they worked quite well. That is the whole point!
     
  8. Arthurprescott2

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    You might be right. But I'd still like to see some extended burn of said line-ups before foreclosing on the possibility. To see the theory put to test.
     
  9. mike_lu

    mike_lu Member

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    Absolutely, agree! And putting the ball into the max player playing PG hasn't worked out well ... or it's looking like putting the ball in your PG's hands and letting your #1 scorer score and be the secondary playmaker is looking like a better move.

    The six-game experience was really not that necessary, but nontheless, the coaches are seeing the light.
     
  10. mike_lu

    mike_lu Member

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    And ... on cue, tinman arrives trying very hard to be a dick, because he actually doesn't know what value he could bring to the discussion.

    Never fail to disappoint.

    Never need to overestimate


    And that's it for me till another time. Till Tinman disappears ...
     
    #50 mike_lu, Nov 19, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  11. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    We saw enough burn of said line up when Lin was in foul trouble in the pistons game & Harden was out there by himself. Nothing good happened. End of possibility. But that is just me.
     
  12. thedude077

    thedude077 Member

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    It's not Jeremy Lin, it's the coaching that makes bad plays. We need to get together and send so many tweets to Morey that we need a new coach. Or send him a letter. We need Stan Van Gundy or some one else who can ACTUALLY knows how to coach.
     
  13. Arthurprescott2

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    http://www.82games.com/1213/1213HOU2.HTM

    #11 five man unit. 7.3 mins of burn, roxxy. not enough to see if it works or not. moreover, this line-up consists of TD/Harden/Parsons/Morris/Asik - I'd like to see PPatt in there instead of Morris and see how it works.
     
  14. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    Good point. Fair enough.
     
  15. pistol111847

    pistol111847 Member

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    Lin playmaking has been excellent

    I agree with your points about Lin running the offense - most intelligent post I've seen in awhile. He is definitely running the offense well and making other players better. His rebounding, assists, steals and much lower turnovers make him an indispensable player. It's true his shooting has been poor so far but with his work ethic I have confidence that it will improve. He did shoot well last year and this year his foul shooting is around 90% which shows he has touch (probably just needs confidence at this point).
     
  16. just a word

    just a word Member

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    The more I think about it, the more I wonder if those 6 games in the middle was just the coaches and Morey trying out different combinations to put Harden 'through his paces' to get more accurate reads/numbers on how Harden does as primary playmaker as a starter (with this team) versus with the bench.

    It's been pointed out several times that PG is the position that is the most dependent on personnel; so while Morey can trust his raw numbers on Harden in non-personnel dependent situations, he can't possibly know (with certainty that is, he can hypothesize) exactly how well Harden's playmaking pans out with THIS team.

    Well, what happens when you only have hypothesis instead of actual numbers? You have to set up some tests... and they didn't have a pre-season with Harden.

    And fact of the matter is, I think Morey's probably on a deadline to get this information as fast as possible because he needs to plan for his next trade moves. The upshot of this meaning rotations/combinations that may or may not make sense.

    ...the other option is that the coaches are incompetent and we'll see a coaching change soon when Les/Morey switches up the interim head coach.
     
  17. just a word

    just a word Member

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    THIS. so much this.

    And you can't reason with a dick/troll.

    Just don't do it, the troll always wins, because the goal of a troll is not to be logical or to find the truth, their goal is to be RIGHT and sometimes even just to get other people pissed off. If you give a troll attention, the troll has already won because that was their goal in the first place.
     
  18. Jetfuel

    Jetfuel Member

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    I think we've seen more than enough burn with TD at the point. Most recently in OT vs the blazers where he was beyond terrible. And the coach rewards him with 16 minutes against the Lakers. Where again he showed us just how bad he is at running an offense.

    But Let's look at the numbers with Lin.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/avgAssists/year/2013/seasontype/2

    He is currently #12 among NBA players in Assists per game at 7.3. This is despite the fact that for 6 of the ten games he barely had the ball in his hands and even in the other 4 games he has shared the ball pretty evenly with James Harden.

    In the last two games Lin had 10+ assists. Watching him play there is nothing to say that he couldn't maintain such an average if he was allowed to continue to run the point. And, if like many other PGs in the league he was actually allowed to be the main ball handler for the majority of the time, he'd easily clock more.

    There are currently only TWO players in the NBA with more than 10 APG. Rajon Rondo and Chris Paul. Hell, just 1.5 more assists per game would put him in the top 5. Does anyone seriously believe that if he was allowed the same ball share in those 6 games where he played as 3 point SG only of the ball as he has in the rest he wouldn't be there?

    Meanwhile according to Hollinger's ESPN stats:

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/usageRate

    Lin remains #45/50 among PGs in his USG rate of the ball at 18.8. Toney Douglas is #38 with 20.0.

    To me these numbers suggests that Jeremy has near Elite playmaking ability at this early level of his career.

    His perimetre shooting is in a bad slump right now. But I honestly believe the only thing that's missing is maybe 3 drives to the basket more per game with some good screens set for him and his FG% and points per game would go up dramatically.

    I think Jeremy can very easily be a double-double machine for the rockets at his current level of play if properly supported by the coaches.
     
  19. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Love that song

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nYSDC3cHoZs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Take a chill pill dude.

    1. Nobody hates Lin is the point I'm trying to make.

    You guys are over analyzing, we lost to the Lakers in LA. Even if Lin found the rim on his shots, we couldn't stop them on D.

    If you accept that his shot sucks, then he didn't have a bad game at all.

    He's Rafer. Skip to my Lin
     
  20. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    i would not put money on Lin to win a knife fight in an alley.
     

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