1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Rockets need SOME midrange game

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by htwnbandit, Dec 29, 2013.

  1. bws

    bws Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,113
    Likes Received:
    22
    A few inches make a big difference. Sometimes you just need to get a few closer shots to get your stroke back.
     
  2. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,004
    Likes Received:
    15,468
  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,717
    Likes Received:
    18,918
    No, I am saying the midrange game should be a shot we look to take, not just one you take when the 3 point shot is not there. If your players are consistently taking the shots they will not be fluid when the D forces them.

    The big issue here is that people look at how low midrange percentages are and assume that it's a bad shot. What they discount is that there are a lot of bad mid-range shots being taken. Turn around jumpers, desperation shots, long 2's, etc.

    When I am advocating here is not that. It's taking the sort of wide open 2 point jump shot we are getting in the corners. If Harden and Lin can't hit a jumper from the FT line at 60% they suck. Heck, they should be making a shot like that at 80%. We're talking wide open. Wide open mid-range shots are easy, I mean, the easiest shot in basketball is a dunk. Then it's a layup. Then it's a wide open jump shot from 15 feet away. We need to shoot more wide open mid-range shots.
     
  4. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,004
    Likes Received:
    15,468
    That's fine, so long as the team doesn't drift too far away from getting high efficiency shots. Mix in enough mid-range shots to keep the defense guessing and give the team more options their comfortable with when the 3-point shot isn't falling. But building an offense specifically geared towards generating a ton of mid-range shots is a bad strategy unless you have superhuman shot makers, because that will just yield a lot of contested mid-range shots which are the worst shots in basketball.

    It would be cool if there's a study somewhere that examines shooting percentages on open mid-range shots. I'd like to know if is as high-percentage as you think, and also how often teams generate such shots.

    I wish SportsVU provided these stats publicly.
     
  5. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,717
    Likes Received:
    18,918
    I agree that taking contested midrange shots should be minimized. Those are the worst shots in basketball. It is too bad about open mid-range shots not having much data but pay attention to open mid-range shots when you watch basketball and see how ridiculously often they go in. The problem isn't making an open mid-range shot, it's finding them.

    Too often midrange shots are the result of failed attempts to get to the rim or off balance or over the out-stretched hand of a defender which probably goes in at a very low clip and drags the overall percentage of midrange shots down.

    I mean, look at a guy like LMA. The man is feasting on a mid-range game. So does LeBron. One reason guys like that can be so successful at the mid-range is because their height essentially makes them open. Defenses can't close.

    Harden may never had the midrange game of a T-mac or Lebron, but we can incorporate the shot ala Luis Scola. I think a guy like Terrance Jones can be a competent shooter and not only have to rely on 3 point shots to spread the floor and keep defenses guessing. Dmo is another one. A 4 or 5 trying to double down on Dwight isn't going to be able to recover fast enough to bother a Jones or DMo 15 footer if they are on the opposite baseline or wing.
     
  6. chandlerbang21

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,397
    Likes Received:
    158
    No logic behind this. Where are you getting these frabricated numbers from?
     
  7. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,004
    Likes Received:
    15,468
    The numbers aren't fabricated. Its basic arithmetic. :confused:
     
  8. basketballholic

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    17,516
    Likes Received:
    4,170
  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,717
    Likes Received:
    18,918
    60% is easily doable - we are talking uncontested shots here. I think I should have clarified but had assumed everyone understood that .
     
  10. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,004
    Likes Received:
    15,468
    I found the following googling the topic:

    http://www.hickory-high.com/?p=10797

    It provides a neat visualization on "catch and shoot" jump shots for all players through Dec 13th, split between mid-range and 3-pointers.

    Catch-and-shoot doesn't necessarily mean uncontested, but I suppose its much more likely to be uncontested.

    The league average for catch-and-shoot mid-range jump shots is only 42% or 0.85 PPS (pretty far from 60%). The Rockets currently shoot 35% on 3s, which is a 1.05 PPS. The league average for catch-and-shoot 3s is 38.3% or 1.15 PPS.

    From the visualization, it shows only a small handful of players are more than 1.2 PPS (60%) on mid-range catch-and-shoot jumpers.
     
    #130 durvasa, Dec 30, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
  11. yummyhawtsauce

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    37
    That's what she said.
     
  12. yummyhawtsauce

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    37
    If you want to have an open midrange shot then you have to create it. Pick and Pop works.
     
  13. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    23,968
    Likes Received:
    14,043
    One thing that is often overlooked with mid range versus 3 pointers is that 3 point attempts leads to more rebounding opportunities. The average team is rebounding about a 26% of its misses and scores about 1.02 points per possession. Assuming the 26% ORB% for both mid range and 3 point attempts and 1.02 ppp on second+ chance opportunities, a team would have to make 63% of open mid range looks to equal that of a team shooting 40% from 3 point line.

    3's
    .4* 3 + .26* .60 * 1.02 = 1.36 points per possession
    mid range 2's
    .63 * 2 + .26 * .37 * 1.02 = 1.36 ppp
     
  14. BigBenito

    BigBenito Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    7,355
    Likes Received:
    175
    I would think they would also lead to more fastbreak opportunities for the opposing team. But, I'm not sure how to track that and compare.
     
  15. willus

    willus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    3
    Morey ball is just layups and taking threes. He believes those are higher percentage shots. He has a rage every time someone takes a jumper.
     
  16. WinkFan

    WinkFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    3,987
    Likes Received:
    96
    Your numbers are way too high. You may think guys should shoot uncontested shots at those rates, but they just don't. 50% is too high.
     
  17. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2000
    Messages:
    21,625
    Likes Received:
    6,257
    The Philadelphia 76ers have built an historically great defense upon the principle of forcing opponents into shooting long 2-point jump shots, but an unhealthy dose of midrange jumpers can kill a team's offense, too.

    Per Hoopdata's stats, the only shot distance that has a significant impact on a team's offensive efficiency is the percentage of field goal attempts taken from 16-23 feet. That the impact is negative shouldn't be very surprising, either -- after all, the expected value of a given shot from that range this season is just 0.76 points per attempt. Put another way: if all else is equal, the difference between having the league's lowest percentage of shots from 16-23 feet (Denver's 15.5 percent) and its highest (Charlotte's 35.2 percent) is worth 6.5 points per 100 possessions. That's a bigger boost to an offense than replacing a league-average point guard with Chris Paul.

    For all the hemming and hawing by purists over the "lost art" of the midrange game, the basic math on those shots appears to be quite damning. If the average player makes 38 percent of his shots from 16-23 feet -- shots that are still worth just two points -- and 35 percent on 3-pointers, why not eschew the long midrange jumper entirely and instead take a shot that gives you an extra point? That's essentially where the game is heading. In just six seasons, the league has gone from taking 26.9 percent of its shots from 16-23 feet to 24.5 percent. Simply, teams are learning to cut out the game's least efficient type of shot.

    This trend also tracks with the rise of individual efficiency stats. Almost universally, players who take a large percentage of their field goal attempts from 16-23 feet also have a low personal offensive rating, a useful all-in-one efficiency metric that tracks a player's expected points when he ends a possession with a shot, assist, drawn foul or turnover. Splitting up the 140 players who have attempted 403 or more field goals this season into four groups based on their percentage of shots taken from 16-23 feet, you can see a clear relationship between individual efficiency and the tendency to hoist midrange jumpers:

    As was the case with teams, the more shots a player takes from midrange, the less efficient an offensive player he will be. Not only does he by definition take fewer high-efficiency shots at the rim or from beyond the arc, but he is also less likely to draw a foul when taking a long jump shot. Given this, convincing players to leave the midrange jumper out of their repertoire would seem to be an intelligent decision for any NBA team.

    However, there is some counterintuitive evidence that players who have the midrange jumper in their arsenal still help teams score more efficiently while on the court. Even after controlling for a player's own rates of possession usage, shooting efficiency (as measured by effective field goal percentage, a stat that adjusts for 3-pointers being worth 1.5 times as many points as 2-pointers) and assists, the percentage of his FGA that came from 16-23 feet was actually a positive variable when predicting his impact on the team's overall effective field goal percentage. That finding was also true when running the same test on team turnover percentage -- the more of a midrange game a player has, the more he helps his team avoid giveaways.

    Why might this be? One theory is that merely having the ability to score from the midrange opens the floor up for a player's teammates. According to 82games.com, just as 3-point attempts per minute is a positive predictor of offensive impact even after holding all other stats equal, players who can knock down shots from 16-23 feet force the defense to respect them from more places on the basketball court, which in turn creates precious space for other players. There's value in keeping the defense honest.

    There's also the matter of a player's shot difficulty as it relates to his role on the team. Among players with at least 1,200 FGA over the past three seasons, high-usage perimeter players (players listed as guards or guard-forwards by Basketball-Reference.com) took a greater percentage of their shots from midrange than those with lower usage rates. While minimizing midrange shots is a good general rule at the team level, even the most midrange-avoidant teams take 15-20 percent of their field goals from that range, shots that high-usage players frequently have to create from scratch.

    Take, for instance, the 20 highest-usage players in the league. As a group, these players are assisted on a much lower percentage of their field goals than the NBA average, because in order to consume so many possessions, a player must increasingly create scoring chances for himself. But even by those players' already self-sufficient standards, they get very little help on the 16-23 foot jumper.

    Here are the percentages of assisted field goals by shot distance for the 20 biggest possession users, versus the league average (see chart):

    At every other location, high-usage players are a uniform 13-14 percentage points below the NBA average in terms of requiring assists. But on 16-23 foot jumpers, that number zooms to 17.6 percent, meaning the degree of difficulty on midrange J's is upped considerably for the best shot-creators. Whether they're forced to shoot under duress at the end of the shot clock or trying other tough chances that no one else on the floor is willing to take, this increased difficulty explains why high-usage players are so valuable even if their efficiency isn't necessarily pretty.

    Perhaps no player exemplifies this phenomenon more than Toronto's Andrea Bargnani. Despised by some in the stats crowd, Bargnani perennially takes 25-30 percent of his shots from midrange, and as a predictable result his efficiency metrics are always below average. Yet a regression to determine player impact on offensive Four Factors found that Bargnani's presence boosts the team's effective field goal percentage by 0.6 points and reduces his team's turnover rate by 0.3 points while he's on the floor.

    For evidence corroborating his on-court influence, check Toronto's record with (13-18, 42 percent winning percentage) and without (7-19, 27 percent) him this season. On paper? Bargnani is the textbook high-usage, low-efficiency player. But his actual impact goes much further than that.

    Of course, a more efficient player is preferable to a less efficient one, given the same levels of usage and shot difficulty. But the next time you see someone decry the midrange tendencies of a high-usage player with low efficiency ratings, remember that at least some of that apparent lack of efficiency is due to absorbing the (necessary) tough shots that inevitably arise during a game. By being willing to take those chances -- and make them at a higher rate than his teammates would -- the high-usage player sacrifices his efficiency stats for the good of the team as a whole.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    23,968
    Likes Received:
    14,043
    You are right. I don't know how to relate transition defense to shooting percentage. I would expect weakening the transition defense would cut into the effectiveness of the 3 pta, but would think it would require a mid range shot to be somewhere between 60-63% for it to match the effectiveness of a 3 point attempt.
     
  19. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,004
    Likes Received:
    15,468
    Here are the latest catch-and-shoot stats from NBA.com/stats which I have summed up per team (plus added a few other metrics):

        Team CaS_2FGM  CaS_2FGA  CaS_3FGM  CaS_3FGA  CaS_2FG%  CaS_3FG%  CaS_2PPS  CaS_3PPS  CaS_2FGA%  CaS_PPS
    1   POR    164       351       234       536       46.8%     43.7%     0.94      1.31      39.5%     1.16
    2   DAL    122       239       211       528       51.1%     40.1%     1.02      1.20      31.2%     1.15
    3   MIA    88        210       219       522       42.1%     42.0%     0.84      1.26      28.7%     1.14
    4   GSW    98        227       200       474       43.1%     42.3%     0.86      1.27      32.3%     1.14
    5   ATL    147       319       257       625       46.1%     41.1%     0.92      1.23      33.8%     1.13
    6   IND    145       296       178       437       49.0%     40.7%     0.98      1.22      40.4%     1.12
    7   HOU    28        71        251       657       38.9%     38.1%     0.78      1.14      9.8%      1.11
    8   PHX    66        163       227       579       40.7%     39.2%     0.81      1.17      21.9%     1.10
    9   BKN    109       244       190       478       44.8%     39.7%     0.90      1.19      33.8%     1.09
    10  WAS    104       259       197       476       40.3%     41.4%     0.81      1.24      35.2%     1.09
    11  NOP    141       337       154       351       41.8%     43.8%     0.84      1.32      49.0%     1.08
    12  SAS    115       283       208       517       40.6%     40.3%     0.81      1.21      35.4%     1.07
    13  LAL    124       278       222       578       44.4%     38.5%     0.89      1.15      32.5%     1.07
    14  TOR    74        177       169       438       41.7%     38.6%     0.83      1.16      28.8%     1.07
    15  NYK    147       317       212       555       46.4%     38.2%     0.93      1.14      36.4%     1.07
    16  BOS    121       260       150       411       46.4%     36.5%     0.93      1.09      38.8%     1.03
    17  DEN    100       241       160       421       41.3%     38.1%     0.83      1.14      36.5%     1.03
    18  CLE    122       287       164       433       42.4%     37.8%     0.85      1.13      39.9%     1.02
    19  OKC    110       255       136       379       43.0%     35.9%     0.86      1.08      40.3%     0.99
    20  ORL    165       388       166       451       42.5%     36.9%     0.85      1.11      46.2%     0.99
    21  PHI    89        214       177       505       41.6%     35.1%     0.83      1.05      29.8%     0.99
    22  MIN    105       275       186       508       38.0%     36.6%     0.76      1.10      35.1%     0.98
    23  UTA    129       347       183       485       37.1%     37.6%     0.74      1.13      41.7%     0.97
    24  LAC    126       299       188       548       42.1%     34.2%     0.84      1.03      35.3%     0.96
    25  MIL    103       290       153       409       35.6%     37.3%     0.71      1.12      41.5%     0.95
    26  MEM    131       347       132       348       37.7%     38.0%     0.75      1.14      49.9%     0.95
    27  CHI    132       329       124       358       40.1%     34.5%     0.80      1.04      47.9%     0.92
    28  SAC    88        244       139       399       36.0%     34.7%     0.72      1.04      37.9%     0.92
    29  CHA    123       340       132       389       36.3%     33.8%     0.73      1.01      46.6%     0.88
    30  DET    52        184       150       447       28.3%     33.5%     0.57      1.00      29.1%     0.88


    Source:
    http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingCatchShoot.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=100

    We are 7th overall in points per shot on our catch-and-shoot jumpers. There is, by the way, a somewhat negative correlation (R^2 is around 16%) between percentage of catch-and-shoot jumpers which are inside the arc and PPS on catch-and-shoot jumpers.

    It is interesting to note that we actually shoot worse on catch-and-shoot 3s and 2s than every other team in the top 15 of this list. But because of our extreme shot selection we still end up 7th in catch-and-shoot efficiency.
     
    #139 durvasa, Dec 30, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
  20. C. Orientalis

    C. Orientalis Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2013
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    7
    Rather make a midrange shot than miss a three.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now