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Robert Mueller, Former F.B.I. Director, Is Named Special Counsel for Russia Investigation

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by KingCheetah, May 17, 2017.

  1. Anticope

    Anticope Member

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    My guess is that there was likely a lot of shady activity by Trump and his associates that fell within a grey area of the law but no smoking gun showing collusion with the Russian government. Barr issuing his 4 page "no collusion/no obstruction" memo weeks before the actual releasing of the report gives Trump and the Republicans an upper hand in pushing the narrative that the Trump campaign did absolutely nothing wrong.

    You wouldn't have trusted a 4 page memo from Loretta Lynch summarizing a 300 page report on a 2 year investigation into Obama, so don't expect everyone to believe a report summary from Trump lackey Barr.
     
    adoo, FranchiseBlade, Rashmon and 4 others like this.
  2. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Actually Barr's summary deviates in a key way from the mandate that Mueller was given from Rosenstein:

    Here's Barr's conclusion on "CONSPIRACY":

    “The Special Counsel did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple offers from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.”

    From Rosenstein's mandate:

    "any links and/or coordination bet ween the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump;"

    ...........................................................

    SOME Facts that we know:

    -Trump's campaign chair met with Konstantin Kilimnik and shared poling data. Kilimnik isn't directly employed by the Russian GOVERNMENT, but he is a "link" to the Kremlin. That's just one example.

    So without the FULL MUELLER REPORT we don't know exactly how Mueller's conclusion on Conspiracy lines up with Barr's interpretation. Maybe it's 100% the same conclusion. Maybe Manafort's interaction with Kilimnik was 100% innocent, or Manafort was tricked & un-witting. But we won't know that without the full report.

    ..........................................

    Your response also completely ignores the notion that Obstruction of Justice is of any concern to the American people and Congress. This entire episode was brought on BY TRUMP when he fired Comey & bragged on TV that he did it "Because of this thing with Trump, and Russia". If Barr is mis-characterizing Mueller's findings on obstruction, that is a big freaking deal. If Mueller decided it was up to Congress to rule on Obstruction because of the DOJ policy & Barr intercepted that pass to Congress... that is also a big freaking deal.

    So keep on with your No-Collusion talking point if you want. People aren't as stupid as you'd like to think they are though. Want to prove us wrong you aren't just a Trump cultist hack... you should also be demanding the full report. Let the full facts come out so we can have a full conversation about the findings.

    So are you a hack, or do you really want the facts?
     
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  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    A shrewder operator than Trump could have spun the Barr Whitewash of the Mueller Report a bit more smoothly.

    The "TOTAL AND COMPLETE EXONERATION, LOCK UP THE INVESTIGATORS!" bullshit was pretty much always going to have this response, but hey it got some chants in Grand Rapids.

    I guess we should be grateful for the obvious mental decline in some sense here.
     
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  4. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member
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    Which narrative is more likely to be true?

    -2 years of collusion collusion collusion on every MSM channel.

    -no collusion
     
  5. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    How about option three:

    - That there was evidence of criminal conspiracy documented in the report but that Mueller's investigation didn't find it sufficient to recommend charges filed?

    And the possibility of option four:

    - That there was evidence of obstruction.

    All narratives suggest reading the full Mueller report. Especially since barr's summarizing/highlighting/careful parsing of the findings is increasingly suspicious.
     
  6. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  7. Anticope

    Anticope Member

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    Which narrative is more likely to be true?

    -the Democrats, the media, the intelligence agencies and the DOJ have all teamed up to undermine the innocent President Trump

    -President Trump is an orange-face wind bag whose supporters will believe any wild conspiracy theory that comes out of his mouth
     
  8. Buck Turgidson

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    How shrewd and smooth do you really have to be to manipulate Trump supporters? Just repeat the lie enough, they'll believe it despite any evidence to the contrary. We have ample evidence of this in areas totally unrelated to the Mueller investigation.
     
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  9. mdrowe00

    mdrowe00 Member

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    Careful.

    ...that's what the Nazis did way-back-when.

    ...and you know how some people feel about being compared to that bunch...
     
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  10. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Why shouldn't the Congress see the whole report? They do not have to release the whole report to the public, but the congressional oversight committees should definitely see the complete report.

    If the congress could not get the complete report, I am betting it will be leaked by someone.
     
  11. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Gee, I should take the word of someone that says his dad was born in Germany (despite a birth certificate that says NYC) and windmills cause cancer.

     
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  12. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    barr/DOJ says they couldn't release Mueller's summary sections couldn't be made public...

     
  13. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member

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    Yep, this.
     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  15. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Appears WSJ is now confirming the NYT and WaPo reporting...

     
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  16. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    It's all fake news. NYT creates imaginary sources out of thin air obviously.
     
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  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    “told associates” = gossiped with friends?
     
  18. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    He seems to get away with stuff on the regular. Don't know why they would change now.

    1. You can obstruct without attempting to cover up.
    2. At least some elements of his obstruction are already in the public record.
    3. Not finding sufficient evidence of conspiracy is not the same as finding evidence of innocence.
     
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    No it won't make much of a difference in anyone's opinion at this point. You're right there. Which ironically enables him to push the limits (and cross them) when it comes to the law. He's a crook, and his followers either don't care or will perform incredible mental gymnastics (Hillary is evil! Comey is Evil! Mueller is Evil!) to justify what he does.
     
  20. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Keep in mind barr was chosen based on a a letter he wrote on whether a president can obstruct justice. This insightful analysis by lawfare:

    Bill Barr’s Very Strange Memo on Obstruction of Justice
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/bill-barrs-very-strange-memo-obstruction-justice

    And now, it appears a disagreement between what Mueller viewed as obstruction and what barr believes...


     
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