[Ringer] 30 Facts that Will Make or Break the Harden-Westbrook Rockets

Ugh.

The original argument was that Westbrook would have better spacing here in Houston than he ever has.

The counter was that people underrate OKC's shooting because Westbrook was the problem.

It was then shown that the most common non-Westbrook shooters on OKC were better than Houston's shooters.

Then somehow it turned into well take out Paul George.

So yes, if you eliminate their best shooter, the rest of OKC's shooters shot a worse percentage than all our combined guys. However, this isn't a fair comparison because you are giving Houston their best guy and taking away OKC's best guy. It's silly.

The comparison should simply be about who he shares the court with. When he was in OKC he shared the court with a better shooting team than he will in Houston next year, by percentage.

edit: typo

 

You don't understand?

Harden and Gordon will be playing with Russ.

Russ and George shot about half of those shots.


What don't you get?

i can't believe people are actually trying to argue that OKC had comparable shooting with Houston.

 

People are trying to argue that BECAUSE THEY DID have comparable shooting with Houston. OKC's non-Westbrook three point shooters shot a higher percentage in 2018-19 than Houston's team did, whether or not you take out CP3 to account for the trade. That is a very simple fact.

The question Ringer was looking at is whether or not Russ's teammates in 2019-20 are demonstrably better three point shooters than his teammates in 2018-19. "Yeah but George shot a lot of those!" is not a factor in answering that question.

 

You don't have to take Harden out. Leave Harden in. Who said take Harden out?

The OKC Thunder, minus Westbrook, were a better 3 point shooting team than the Rockets. Full stop. Not taking Harden out.

 

Good explanation, except I think you meant “isn’t a fair comparison” in the second to last paragraph.

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here. This is really a pretty simple comparison that people keep trying to obscure for some reason.

 

So percentage is the only thing you are hanging your hat on?

Not the volume of the threat of who will actually be likely to shoot the 3.

And the stat is discounting him playing with Harden because it's only counting catch and shoot 3's.

 

You take Harden out because he was using only catch and shoot 3's.

So you are only going by percentage and not volume?

Why is that?

 

I looked at ALL threes by ALL players on both teams, just subtracting Russ’s from the OKC totals.

 

What exactly do you think the goalposts where at?

Does volume and percentage not count when saying who is the better 3 point shooting team?

 

1) Catch and shoot 3s matter because pull up 3s by James Harden don't have anything to do with Westbrook or any other player. They don't impact his spacing at all. The point is about spacing. Spacing for Westbrook when he has the ball in his hands is impacted by guys who can catch and shoot.
2) Even aside from catch and shoot 3s, just pure shots, OKC still better.
3) I already acknowledged the volume being different.

 

The good news is that if Biff prefers volume to accuracy, he is gonna freaking LOVE Westbrook.

 

So I actually looked at the actual numbers.

Russ will be playing with 5 guys who shot 35% or better from 3.

He only played with with 3 last year.

All of those 5 guys shot more 3's than there comparable guys on OKC.

So tell me again how OKC was better?

 

Because his teammates hit a higher percentage of their three point shots than Houston did.

I feel like I've said this about six times in a row and you keep trying to ignore that very simple fact, and slice the numbers some other complicated way just to make Houston look better. It's getting old.

 

What?

Hardens pull up 3's don't affect spacing?

You have got to be ******** me.

And I just ran the actual numbers and Houston top 5 3 point shooters all shot more than 35% OKC only had 3 guys.

 

His teamates?

Tucker 37%
Gordan 36%
House 41%
Green 35%

Okc

George 43%
Grant 39%
Schroeder 34%
Ferguson 36%

That's not even including Harden and including George.

So take away George and Houston shot 37% to 36%.

 

Yes, his teammates. A quick perusal of the stat sheet should show you that George was, in fact, among Russ’s teammates last year.

Your latest attempt to manipulate the stats in a pro-Houston way is even more blatant than the previous ones. I looked at ALL the teammates. You cherry picked those you found convenient.

 

Yes, and he keeps pointing out that Rocket players attempted far more threes than the non-Westbrook members of the Thunder. Westbrook took more than 20 shots a game, shots that should have been taken by other players. That's all of Tucker and Gordon's shots combined. At best, if he doesn't change, replacing Paul with him will mean 7-8 less shots a game for other Rocket's players.

We will see what happens this year. I suspect it will look promising at first, just like his attempts at better distribution with Carmelo and George, but that will wane over the course of the year. The playoffs might be ugly but perhaps we will all be pleasantly surprised.