Da Dakota: "I realize that Francis has TONS of potential, but I grow weary of people saying he is great....HE IS NOT !!!!!!!" You shoulda put the modifier 'yet' in there at the end. "He is not, yet", kinda thing. ------------------
Stevie is a star already and Cuttino will be a star very soon. That guy is unstopable when you hold him one on one.
To an extent, I agree with DaDakota. Many times during our offensive sets, it takes either the iso, or a complex variety of many dribbles, picks, and other important trinkets, for us to get a half decent shot, and sometimes not a great one at that, or we have to try and make a spectacular play. If you notice Kidd, his passing skills and instincts are light years ahead of Francis, He was able to make passes that IMMEDIATELY set up his teammates, either cutting to the hole, or he could cut to the hole and make a pass at the right moment to an open teammate in scoring position. Steve often dribbles too much, or tries to do many things at once, and RARELY makes the plays that require just his one pass to get a player open going to the rack, with a mismatch, or a "money" shot. Is that really to much different that a PF running back to offense while the rebound is up, hoping someone else will grab the board? However, I don't regret the trade. Steve is an outstanding talent. I just would like him to improve his PG instincts and skills. ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated.
In order for Francis to pass to teammates that are cutting to the hole, his teammates have to actually cut to the hole. I don't think that has as much to do with Kidd's passing skills as the type of offense that Phoenix is running. I too would like to cut out alot of the dribbling in our offense. Also other teams, including Phoenix, attempt to double team or trap Francis. This also makes passing to an open man, cutting to the goal or not even more difficult. I could be wrong, but I don't seem to remember us double teaming or trapping Jason Kidd to often. In essence, though I agree that Jason Kidd sees the floor a little better than Francis at this point, I think that it is a little unfair to say Kidds skills are "light years" ahead of Francis'. ------------------
Odig-I'd have to pay attention a little more, but generally after the trap is beaten, the ball goes back to the PG, unless a shot is there immediately. I still stand that Kidd's skills as a Point Guard (passing skills, floor general) are light years ahead of Francis (which means about 4-5 years really ). I simply can't see Francis as a top dog in the assist category. Speaking of traps, I find that if Francis pushed past half court a little more, we'd not only have a few extra precious seconds, he'd break a few more traps that way. Kidd wasn't trapped in part because he gets down the floor as soon as possible, which allows him to often lose a defender who's not set, and create a mismatch as well as break the press. The Rockets assist totals so far have been very unimpressive. For a team with such locker room unity, it's not that they don't like giving each other the ball is it? Blame the "iso" effect for a few, but a good portion of isos end up being passed off. Maybe it's just we need a few years, but it bothers me that at times our offense can free stroke, and others we struggle to get a half decent shot, and are laboring seriously. I missed a lot of the Clipper game, but shooting below 35%, with all the scorers and shooting we have on our team, to the freaking Clippers defense is not right at all. ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated.
I think we all would like Francis to improve his PG skills. Well, he played his first year of PG last year, his rookie season in the NBA. How do you think he did? Improvement requires a few things....time, experience, patience, and the making of mistakes. I think Francis is LIGHT YEARS ahead considering those above mentioned factors. Kidd is the best passer in the league, bar none. Francis is a better scorer, and rightfully so, due to the fact he has played SG most of his short basketball career. You know, it is a real tribute to Francis and his tremendous skill and potential that we have such lofty and impatient expectations of him. But that does not mean he can be this player we expect in one year of NBA ball. ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Kidd also does not get trapped as often because he is not the offensive threat that Francis is....remember that! Remember, Kidd took some time to get where he is today. Francis needs that time too. I watched Kidd closely here in Dallas, and if I compare the two in their sophomore seasons......I think Francis has a better jump on the NBA game. The pure PG is a dying breed. After Kidd, there is no more, and before Kidd, it was almost limited to Stockton. They are few and far between. The prototype NBA PG is now being groomed more towards the Paytons (a do it all style), Miller and Francis'. ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Remember the Beating Kidd took for not having a shot. how long before he developed one. . er i think it was. . uhm .. LAST YEAR how many years he been in the league? Patiences folx. Kidd use to be like Avory J. a Floor general but they person you want to shoot . . . Rocket River ------------------
steve is getting almost 7 assist a game. thats pretty damn good. Its not at kidd's level yet but steve makes up for the 1-2 assists with his scoring. Steve is more explosive and is coming off a rookie season. i dont expect him to be as good as kidd yet that would be aking for too much. but he's already close. and steve is not a great player but he is sure as hell a good player. a VERY good player. and dadakota if you didnt mean taking miller over francis then why did you say it?
We need to ask what we expect out of a star point guard. Let's make that distinction. If we expect Francis to be Kidd, then we will be forever disappointed, If Francis can be more efficient and above average passer, then he will be the most all-around, complete, dangerous point guard perhaps in history. ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing!
What do I expect out of Francis? To start playing smarter basketball, get his teamates involved more often, cut down on turnovers, and most importantly, LEAD the team to victories. That is all !!! I always ask for the stars, maybe I just need to be a bit more patient. (I HATE PATIENCE !!! UGHH !! ) DaDakota ------------------ If Mankind evolved from Monkeys and Apes, then why are there still Monkeys and apes?
i dont think we'll be dissapointed if we want him to be as good as kidd. he's close to kidd's numbers already as a sophomore
DaDakota I agree 100%. The other night, with the game on the line, back to back turnovers. What a hump buster. It's not about his talent, or stats, it's about leadership and giving the team what it needs, when it needs it. The pg has to play under control, in order to control the team. Has Steve been able to control the team so far? No. We can see all of his physical talent and abilities on the court. That just makes us expect more. We know he is special, gifted, exiting to watch. Is he the ultimate point gaurd? Right now, no. Part of the problem has to be the pressure to be "DA MAN". If we had a veteran point gaurd, like Sam Cassel had Kenny Smith, it might help. But that's not going to happen. For now it is still a learning process, growing pains, potential, whatever you call it, it means it ain't happening now. Can Steve be one of the top 5 point gaurds? Yes. Will Steve be one of the top 5 point gaurds? Probably not this year, maybe not next year either. Its like learning to drive a stick shift for the first time. Your brain knows what you are supposed to do and your body can make the moves. Somehow it just doesn't happen. Some people just get an automatic. Trade Steve? No. But I do wish we still had Sam.
DaDakota, I feel some of your sentiments towards your towards Francis and his play of late, but why not accentuate the numerous positives he brings rather than dwell on his few expected negatives? As its been mentioned in this thread alone, our 6'foot 3'inches of a franchise is still only in his 2nd NBA season, has very little organized basketaball experience compared to other PG's his age. Plus, he hasn't even played the Point entirely for that brief amount of time, a position that most consider the toughest to learn. I hold no disagreements there. Trust me, he will get better. Maybe not tomorrow, or next week, and maybe not even next season. But gradually, his knack for creating turnovers, making poor decisions and playing inconsistent defense will improve. As for his strengths - as hard it is to believe - they will only get better. But to say we would be better with Mobely at the point, that is utterly ridiculous. Francis may not be a pure PG, but Mobely is not even close to one. Stevie still sees the court better, and generally makes better decisions with his teammates. Don't forget, Mobes doesn't have the pressure of being the #1 offensive threat in the eyes of opponents. He has the luxury of coming off the bench, either taking advantage of tired starters or less-talented 2nd-stringers. Francis may not be a superstar, but he is clearly the star of this team. If he goes down, so does this team. Azim da Dream ------------------ We don't live for the destination. We live for the journey. http://www.clutchtown.com
What do I expect out of Francis? To start playing smarter basketball, get his teamates involved more often, cut down on turnovers, and most importantly, LEAD the team to victories DaDakota, Playing "smarter" basketball is about decision-making on the court. This will improve in the not too distant future, with further experience. Further, I see Steve making strives to get his teammates more involved. In due time Steve will lead his team to more victories. Now, let's expand on what I meant by "efficiency". Will Francis match the passing ability of Jason Kidd (The best in the aforementioned category right now)? No and maybe never. Kidd may be one the best passing point guards of all time. He constantly racks up double digit assists - an extreme rarity these days. However, I personally feel Francis will have a unique place in history as a point guard when all is said and done. Follow me with this: Francis is not at the top in scoring for a point guard, but he is right up there near the top (even comparing past years). Further he is likely to improve scoring. Francis will never be known as an "elite" passer (that distinction goes to the Stocktons, Kidds and Magics out there.), but can Francis be an efficient, above average passer? For example, Can he have a good ratio of 8 to 9 assist to about 3 turnovers? Perhaps not now, but he is getting there. Can Francis be a good rebounding point guard? Can Francis hustle, make the free throws, further improve on "D", and get the steals? O Yea! Can Francis cement his position as the leader on this team? Definitely. I hope you all realize that when Francis is remembered in the future as one of the best of all time, it will be because of him being one of the most complete, all-around point guards to ever play the game! p.s.: Check out the game against Vancouver! ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing!
I don't know how this degraded into an "I hate Steve" thread. I don't, in fact, I root for him like mad. Maybe I expect too much of him already. Perhaps, but anyone notice that after I started this thread, he started playing better? Whatever works, right? DaDakota ------------------ If Mankind evolved from Monkeys and Apes, then why are there still Monkeys and apes?
Can Steve be one of the top 5 point gaurds? Yes. Will Steve be one of the top 5 point gaurds?Probably not this year, maybe not next year either. Smoke, Just out of curiosity, what point guards do you think are currently better than Francis? Payton and Kidd are a given, but who are the other 3? Possibly, you could argue Stockton, but that's very arguable. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited November 10, 2000).]
Even major sports polls have shown Francis as the 3rd best PG in the league....already! And all I hear is b****ing about his PG skills need to improve. ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
aelliott, Those who say Cassell and Marbury are better than Francis at this point certainly have an arguement, as do those who think Brandon is better, or at least a better point guard. Others such as Stockton, a healthy Tim Hardaway are honourable mentions as well. Azim da Dream ------------------ We don't live for the destination. We live for the journey. http://www.clutchtown.com
