I recently started a thread discussing the three types of HC offense the Rockets have featured this season. Motion, post and spread. Asik gums each and every one of them up. There are a few specific match ups where the TT defense may offset the detrimental effect on the offense. McHale is eminently qualified to make that judgement. Who else would have started Harden at PF in the playoffs last season?
Do you even read peoples comments or just imagine them to be what you want them to say? Harden being efficient during the entire game has no relevance to how Harden played WITH THE TT on the the floor. You are modulating an argument to prove a point. That is pretty much the definition of campaigning. I would encourage anyone to simply go back and watch the tape of when the TT where on the floor together and draw your own conclusion. Don't listen to me, go find out yourselves. Please somebody go back and tell me that this lineup was secretly good, and explain it from a basketball standpoint. No more modulating stats. BASKETBALL.
Isn't the point of this whole meaningless argument to see whether or not Harden & Howard are better or worse WITH THE TT ON THE FLOOR & to see if it makes life easier or worse for them? Why wouldn't you look at WHEN THEY ARE ON THE FLOOR TOGETHER? Is that not the whole freaking point? Why would Harden going off for 14 pts in the 4th quarter with Casspi on the floor instead say anything positive about the efficiency of James Harden with the TT on the floor? You are implying that Harden was more efficient in the first 9 games than he was the last 68 games, and implying that the TT had something to do with that efficiency, But that is simply not true, and the game film, basketball reference play by play, and everything else proves that theory to be completely false. In the few minutes the TT were on the court together... the fact is, it wasn't pretty for Harden or Howard. Again- If anyone thinks I'm wrong about this, and Howard and Harden were actually better in those minutes with the TT on the floor, go watch it yourself, and draw your own conclusion. I'm not a know it all proclaiming to be Morey's right hand man. You are the same guy who makes countless BS arguments about TJ & Dwight's coupled +/- and eliminate the other 3 positions on the floor. If anyone shouldn't be preaching about not staying in a vacuum for an arguments sake, it sure as hell ISN'T you.
No, not TT, doesn't work won't work... Maybe on the last posession. Our offense will be teribble with no where for the SG, PG, and SF to drive to! Don't do it, let it go!!
It's about what helps this team win a championship, dobro. I want to see this team win a championship. I know maybe you and perhaps others don't believe it is possible. But I think we've got a good chance to win it if we can get there. Now a large part of that has to do with making it "easier" on Harden and Howard. But not entirely. Harden and Howard are going to have it tough any way we go. It's difficult to win a championship even under the "eaiser" scenario...whatever that is. It's really about making the team the most efficient on both ends of the floor. That's how you win games. And besides how do you make it easier on Harden and Howard? I've tried to show you what Howard is going up against. He's undersized and will be outweighed by around 20 or more pounds against all those WC contenders. Putting Asik and his size and length in there with him could possibly make it "easier" for him. You are making the argument that Jones gives him space. Take one look at Jones' shot chart and tell me he gives Dwight space. He doesn't. And the boxscores prove it when we play these contending teams. (Now that doesn't mean I hate Jones. I don't hate Jones. It's just a fact. He's not ready to help us win a championship by playing substantial minutes alongside Dwight. He's not big enough. He's not strong enough. He's not skilled enough. And for durn sure isn't experienced enough. And there are plenty of stats and metrics to back that up.) Why is it that you want to look at the limited data to prove the TT doesn't work and accept those stats and video in a vacuum??? Do you realize the TT experiment only lasted 81 minutes and 48 seconds over the first 8 games of the season when teams are still finding themselves and don't really know who they are? And then the experiment was aborted. Not failed. But aborted. There's a difference between a failed experiment and an aborted one. I'm sure you took chem lab in school. What happens if you have to do an experiment that requires HCL and you pop open the cabinet and there ain't no HCL in there? Well, obviously you abort the experiment. There are no results because you didn't get to complete the experiment. What happens when you start an experiment and you drop the beaker and it shatters into a gazillion pieces splattering acid all over the place? Well, you have to abort the experiment and clean up the mess. That's what happened with the Twin Towers, dobro. There were key ingredients missing to the experiment. One key ingredient missing was the desire on both Dwight and Asik to make it work. Dwight had some desire to make it work but Asik basically had very little and was being egged on by his agent to crash the experiment which he successfully accomplished. He did that to improve his chances of getting traded. But that didn't happen. Now here we are stuck with this 8-game aborted experiment from the beginning of the season that you and others think is the proving grounds and completed results of the Twin Towers experiment. And the truth is the experiment never really got started. So, while you complain about me using data from that experiment to disprove to you that it was more "difficult" for Harden and Howard...you yourself are using that data to attempt to prove that the Twin Towers was a failure. So either it was a legit experiment or it wasn't. Pick your poison. If it wasn't a legit experiment...then let's throw it out and realize what we have here. What we have is an unknown. And you can't say that it won't work based on the first 8 games of the season. Which is what you've been doing up until now. And here's the case in point. You can't say the 8-game TT experiment was a failure and then turn around and deny the data that shows Harden was more efficient the first 8 games of the season then he has been in the remaining games. Once again.....GIGO....garbage in, garbage out.....if you want to keep saying the TT experiment was a failure because you watched the games...then you'll have to accept that Harden was more efficient in those same games you watched. The box score and metrics shows he was more efficient in those games. Now if you want to throw away that data because the sample size is too small......I readily concur with that conclusion. It is too small. And it was tainted. It was the same experiment. Harden's extra degree of efficiency doesn't really mean anything in that environment based on such small samples of polluted data. But you can't have it both ways. If we gonna throw it out....let's throw it out. That's what should be done here. Because the first 8 games of the season mean absolutely nothing in light of the environment they were played in. Got it? Yeah, I'm that guy. You know why???? They were starting the game, dobro. The other 3 guys on the floor with them to start one game were the same 3 guys on the floor with them to start the other games. NOT ENOUGH VARIANCE TO ACCOUNT FOR DOBRO! The same rotation players are the same rotation players. If you want to look at the data in more detail and think you can prove something different with the extra players around Dwight and Jones....GO AHEAD AND DO IT!! Bring it here for our consideration. I'll read it as will many others and we can all evaluate it. Or go ahead and keep pissing and pooping on all the evidence that we bring to you to show you that if we are going to win a championship this year something has to give at the power forward spot without providing any evidence refuting the evidence we submit to you. Keep pissing about me hating Jones when you have no evidence of such. Keep pissing and pooping that we can't possibly win a championship this year no matter what we do when you have no evidence of such. Go ahead and keep pissing and pooping that garbage. But I'm going to keep evaluating whether or not we can possibly win a championship this season and how we can best go about doing that. (One thing we could do is get Camby or some other big signed to a contract in the next week.) I specifically compared Howard and Jones' combined floor time with specific combinations of big men. I did that for a good variety of games against a certain class of team, the teams we are possibly going to be playing in the playoffs, dobro. Why did I look at them in tandem like that? Because the big man rotation is a key element to winning a championship. Especially in this case since the power forward position is the WEAK LINK among the starters. If we're going to have to make an adjustment to our starters or to our rotation to get past another team it is most likely going to have to involve our power forward position. Because our power forward position is the weakest position on the team. Good day, dobro.
I think the lack of their shooting range makes it too hard to play those 2 together. Asik can barely get dunks to drop and Dwight doesn't have any range either. Which would allow the opposing team to clog the paint making it not only harder on Dwight to score, but also our slashers; Harden, Lin, Parsons, Casspi, etc., would find it tougher to get to the rim. That means the perimeter defense could play the shooters tighter knowing the paint is full and they wont have to respect the drives. Now if either one of those guys, Asik/Howard, could step out and hit a 15-18 footer, then we'd be in business. But until then, I think playing them both would be a very rare situational set.
Spacing. Every component of the Rockets offense depends on it. Even the fast break to some degree. Why is spacing important? It drags defensive players out of the paint and opens up driving lanes and single coverage in the post. Bad offensive teams do not have correct spacing. MEM, DET, IND to name a few. If you seriously look at Houston's offense, spacing is one of the primary concerns. Maybe the prime concern. The Rockets run a R&R offense with a variety of offensive sets. Every offensive set the Rockets run depends on getting the defense to evacuate the paint and punishing them if they do not. Come to think of it that is what every NBA team attempts to do. Few are as successful as the Rockets though.
ENEE MEANIE MINEY MO CATCH A SHOOTER BY THE TOE Spoiler IF HE SHOOTS IT LET HIM PLAY 30 MINUTES EVERY DAY Spoiler MY MAMA TOLD ME TO PICK THE VERY BEST ONE Spoiler AND YOU ARE NOT IT! Spoiler Yup. If only Asik could shoot it. Spoiler
No, we do not need to change the lineup this deep into the season. Asik coming off the bench is all gravy.
Exactly... Here's what's even more funny. He's taking the (+/-) stat of Howard and Asik but not taking any consideration were the points are coming from because those are two big men with no consistent post game and can't play away from the basket. Lol.. All I know is rather Howard is out like he is now or Asik is out when Jones is at the 4 we win... And the power forward spot is the least of the Rockets worries.
LOL you really don't like Jones starting at all huh Holic. Man the twin tower line up was an disaster early on. We are going into the playoffs with a 50+ record and you are lobbying for a change. Pimp that makes no sense whatsoever. You don't change the successful starting lineup this late into the season.
Indeed pimpn LOL. Holic has been lobbying for Jones to be the 9-10 man off the bench dating back to pre season. Jones has stumped all over that notion all season. We are well above .500 with Jones starting, so I don't know why dude keeps lobbying for a PF move this late into the season. First Dmo now Asik
But you're only calculating the (+/-) when Howard and Asik is on the floor without looking at who else is on the floor with them and without looking at the 5 opponents on the floor they are playing against. Which makes your calculation meaningless... You wasted your time basically.
No, that's not accurate. I don't mind Jones starting at all when we play the Los Angeles Lakers and he is matched up with Ryan Kelly. I don't like him starting when we play the OKC Thunder and he's matched up with Ibaka though. That's a disaster. And I also don't like Jones starting when we play the Griz and he's matched up against Zach Randolph. That's another disaster. Oh, I don't like him starting when we play the Blazers and he's matched up against LaMarcus Aldridge. That's still another disaster. But I don't mind him starting when we play the Phoenix Suns and he's matched up against P.J. Tucker or whoever they run out there. Do you understand? Yeah, the Twin Tower was a disaster early on in the 81 minutes we used it because Asik made sure it was a disaster. And the Dwight/Jones lineup against LaMarcus/Lopez was a disaster too. And the Dwight/Jones lineup against Perk/Ibaka and Perk/Adams was a complete disaster. Should I go on? No, you don't change the successful starting lineup this late into the season. But what do you do about the disasters? What does the best coach in the business do about disasters, Htownballer?
Meaningless to you. But definitely not a waste of my time. Further evidence that we aren't good enough against the better teams when we run Jones out there alongside Dwight. Further evidence that something is going to have to give there if we are going to move past teams like OKC, LAC, Portland, etc.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see the Twin Towers lineup at some point in the playoffs. Seems like something the coaching staff would keep in mind especially versus Spurs and Blazers.
I don't know what people expect from a youngster getting his first consistent playing time... Just think how far along the kid would be now if McHale would have gave him more playing time last season.
