Does anyone have any good reasons as to why Roger had as good a year as Randy last year. Discussing it with a Yankees fan, who thinks Randy had a far superior year. Any valid reasons to say Rogers was just as good?
Clemens had a better record, and his ERA was basically as good as Unit's when you control for ballpark (Zona's a good pitcher's park, while Clemens played in a hitter's park). Unit also didn't pitch in a meaningful game all year, while Clemens put his numbers up in the heat of a playoff race.
Sam said it all. Don't forget Roger pitching under the pressure of carrying his hometown team on a run from the depths of crap back to the playoffs. (That mounting pressure showed in the All Star game, but thankfully never in the season really) Even more ERA control than usual since Clemens pitched moreso in home games than road due to the contract thing...so even more MMP games than normal. Roger was adjusting to a new league for the first time, hitting for the first time, etc. It makes a difference--at least at first.
sam.... That's what I thought. He is actually trying to claim that Arizona has a more hitter friendly ball park, and basing it on the claim that visitors scored more runs at Bank One than Minute Maid despite that fact that Arizona Diamondbacks had a lower ERA than the Astros. Not sure if that info is accurate.
Also while he claims that Roger pitched more pitchers per inning and gave up more walks.. many times watching Roger last year it seemed as though that was somewhat on purpose. He's experienced enough to know sometimes when he's tired etc what is best to do as far as walk a few guys throw a few other pitches. And I do think the fact that he was winning games does matter. You pitch differently when you are winning, and even are willing to give up an extra run or two here and there if you have a big lead.
Clemens pitched every 5th day regardless of it being a home or road game. The only provision in his contract was if he wasn't scheduled to pitch on a road trip then he could skip it. He had 20 home starts and 13 road starts.
Can't judge a park based on 1 team's statistics over 1 year. Look at 3-5 year trends for total runs, and compare it to the same team on the road. For example, (Dbacks runs + opponents runs at home) vs. (Dbacks runs + opponents runs on the road). He's making up facts, by the way. The Stros had a 4.05 ERA overall, the Dbacks 4.98. So of course visitors scored more at Bank One, the Dbacks pitchers other than Johnson flat out sucked. Their era was even worse on the road.
sam.. That's what I thought too. He got these numbers from somewhere, but I am doubtful of them until I see the full list. I too doubt that Astros had higher ERA than dbacks... and that bank one is more hitter friendly.. Not that it matters who had the better year, just an interesting discussion
actually bank one ballpark played as more of a hitters park than minute maid did last year. it had a park effect of 103 (anything over 100 indicates the park good for hitters) while minute maid played exactly even at 100. in fact, minute/enron has decreased as a hitter's park every single year since it's inception. it's not the hitter's haven many have made it out to be. taking those park factors into effect, clemens had an era of 2.98 and an era+ of 145 while johnson had an era of of 2.60 and an era + of 171. Moreoever, johnson pitched 30 more innings, had a more lower whip, had more strikeouts, had a better k/bb ratio, more complete games, more shutouts, games started, better varp, etc. basically he had better stats in every area but wins. I loved the way roger pitched last year but basically the only legit argument i can see is that roger actually pitched in meaningful games. http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/johnsra05.shtml http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/clemero02.shtml
Randy Johnson was the better pitcher last year whem compared to Clemens. It's pretty much impossible to argue against that. Johnson was able to do his job, which is to prevent as few runs as possible in as many innings as possible, much better than Clemens did. Of course, who had the better year really depends on how one weighs team results in these comparisons. That is pretty subjective and there's really no right or wrong answer. I personally don't put much weight in such team accomplishments, like gaudy win-loss records(remember J. Robertson for us last year?). So I thought RJ had the better year, and should've been the Cy Young. Of course, I'm pretty glad Roger won it.
Not to mention Roger had only 2 more wins even though Arizona scored two runs or less in 17 of the Unit's 35 starts.
Eh, this is nothing new. In 2001, Mussina was probably more deserving to win the Cy. That year, Roger didn't lead the league in any major pitching catergory except for winning percentage, not to mention that he was 9th in ERA. He placed third in strikeouts, one behind teammate Mike Mussina. Mussina was in the top 5 in all three Triple Crown catergories, just like Clemens. He had more complete games and shutouts(4-0, 3-0, respectively), a better ERA by nearly half a run, gave up 8 less runs (6 earned), 3 less hits, gave up one more home run, allowed 30 less walks, bested Roger in opponents OBP (.274 to .309) and batting average (.237 to .246), not to mention winning only 3 less games with 2 full runs less per in support (Clemens got 6.58 runs in the games he pitched that year). Basically, Clemens and Mussina, save for winning percentage, had nearly identical seasons, with a slight statiscal edge going to Moose. If Mike Mussina was just as good, if not better, than Roger Clemens that year, then you can successfully make the arguement that Clemens was not the best pitcher on his own team; thus, how can you say he was the best pitcher in the league if he isn't the best pitcher on his own staff? Clemens gets a lot of love from the media as long as he's not throwing beanballs. It's been like that for a while, and people have to accept it until he retires,
Okay it doesn't matter much to him because he already thinks Roger will be traded to the Yanks at midseason.. If we are out of it and he is paid 18k. or did we give him no trade clause etc?
sam. LOL I give him a lot of grief because he's from New Jersey.. I know they are close and all but I like to give him trouble about the fact that he lives in New jersey and roots for yankees but also roots for the eagles. I tell him if you are going to root for new york teams then root for the jets and giants .. none of this rooting for the best new york team and the best philly team although I know they are all close together and probably a lot of people do
freddy garcia could've also won it that year. 9th in ERA winning w/o even a complete game is a disgrace. has any starting pitcher cy young winner ever not had a complete game? considering the prevalence of CG's in the past and the fact most the cy's now always are the best of the best and usually get 3 or 4 in there, i'd think no.
