First of all, all 3 of these guys are 5's that can play the 4 in a twin towers lineup. They're not 4's. Secondly, I seriously doubt Portland or OKC would give up either of those guys for Terrence. Muscala??? Possibly. But once again I just don't see the motivation from Atlanta's end. They've got Muscala locked up for for 2 more years if they want him. He's a legit 7-footer. And he can actually shoot it. Also, Muscala isn't enough salary to get Terrence. ATL would have to send someone else and they really don't have anybody that would work, that they would be willing to move. Terrence can be traded by himself for basically $3 million in salary. So the list of players he can be traded for is bigger than what you think. And you might look at Detroit and Boston, two teams with over 15 guaranteed contracts that are looking to dump a couple contracts to get to the league max of 15. EDIT: I forgot about Shelvin Mack. The more I think about a deal with Atlanta the more I like it. With the Mike Scott situation, they are kind of in need at the backup 4 spot. And they've recently signed Tavares so they now have 4 center types in Horford, Splitter, Muscala, and Tavares. So possibly a Terrence for Mack/Muscala would be good for both teams?? It sure is tempting to me. Mack is your 3rd point guard. He's tough as nails and showed plenty of moxy under pressure at Butler. Hasn't had a good start to his NBA career. But we're talking 3rd string PG. Definitely a guy that could possibly find something if we needed him in there because of injury. And I've liked Muscala since he was in the draft although I've always considered him too slow. However, his jump shot has really developed. I'd love to add him as a 3rd center and backup 4 that can play in twin tower lineups and still spread the floor.
Sure Jones CAN be traded for ~$3m in incoming salary .... But that defeats the purpose of the entire trade which is to use the Shved TPE to create some distance from the apron .... and the hard cap should they use the MLE. If that's the idea behind the trade then the incoming salary has to be 1.619m or lower , not the maximum amount that Jones could return which is $3.211m. What other suggestions do you have when it comes to creating some distance from the apron / hard cap ?!
I think we avoid the apron by not using the rest of the MLE. We either get Harrell signed using a minimum salary deal or we trade him. I don't see Morey being willing to get locked into having to stay under the apron this next season. It hurts our trade prospects too much.
That is definitely an option .... but not the only option. I've said before that is was possible that they trade Harrell prior to signing him and use the Shved TPE to absorb the returning salary. Otherwise if he's traded , they cant take back salary , only draft considerations & (or) cash. Trading Jones (or one of DMo , KJ , Dekker) while absorbing any incoming salary with that same Shved TPE is a very viable option tho the potential returning players are not very numerous because you do need some quality in return. (I wouldn't add DMo to such a deal unless I was getting back a very lightly protected pick from a highly likely lotto team along with a player able to contribute).
The only options to avoiding the apron hard cap are: 1. Trade Harrell's rights 2. Sign Harrell to a minimum salary 3. Offer Harrell a minimum salary contract and Harrell signs a contract to play in China or somewhere else for the next year. We would retain his rights without signing him. As far as trading Harrell for an already signed player using the Shved TPE, finsraider came up with that suggestion on 7/30 in the Richaun Holmes thread. If you came up with that idea before he did then I'll rep you for it like I rep'd him.
They will only be hard capped IF they use more of the MLE than they already have - IE Greater than the Taxpayer MLE which is the value they gave KJ. (Yeah , we're saying the same thing - I'm just explaining why) Problem is that to sign Harrell to anything longer than the standard 2 year rookie deal they have to use what remains of the MLE which would essentially invoke that hard cap as they would be $3.524m over the tax line and unable to exceed the apron($4m over the tax line of $84.74m). They'd be $476k short of the apron should they use the remaining amount of the MLE. Might be able to squeeze a 10 day or pro rated min deal in with that $476k remaining below the apron but .... thats about it. ($86.176m in current salary , $1.436m above the tax line $2.088m left of the MLE) After crunching the numbers swapping Jones for one of the above mentioned players does not shed enough salary to remain below the tax line once you factor in the returning salary (other than Muscala but you'd have to involve a 3rd team for ATL to send scraps to so the money would work). And you still wouldn't be far enough below to use the rest of the MLE without activating the hard cap. Basically for my idea above to work they have to send out just under 5m. - Jones isn't enough outgoing salary.
Terrence Jones + KJ McDaniels for Markieff Morris Lawson/Beverley Harden/Thornton Ariza/Brewer/Dekker Morris/Motiejunas/Harrell Howard/Capela/Hayes
That Doesn't work salary wise, you have to add at least a minimum player to get the trade done. My proposal would be something like McDaniels, Jones + either (Hayes/Thornton) for Markieff and either (Leuer/Goodwin) using our TPE.
well OKC can't keep all of Adams, Ibaka McGary and Kanter. Someone will have to go for a 2 most likely. And out of all those the most likely to be traded sometime in the future is McGary. For a good cheap wing in a rookie contract. Also Plumplee is a 5 not a 4.
Markieff at $8mil/yr for the next 4 years is a bargain. Morey will eventually trade Jones or lose him in free agency after next season anyway. Some team will offer him at least $12mil/yr.
Sure he is .... but do you really want the trouble. Not only is he crazy but what are you going to give up for him ?? It would take Jones , KJ and a minimum contract just to make the money work (You cant trade KJ or any of the Rockets min guys right now) I had enough crazy with Royce White and Squid .... Top it off with the fact that he's probably equal to Dmo and only a minor upgrade to Jones .... what's the point. If we're trading away that much talent .... You gotta get a better player than Markieff. Basically it has to send Dmo to the bench. Too much crazy , too many assets , not enough of an upgrade to move the needle.
TJones + Rights to Harrell for Bobby Portis TJones + Rights to Harrell for James Jones and Delon Wright
I've thought about the Bobby Portis trade. That's probably close to fair value. But the thing is teams fall in love with their rookies in SL and they all think their kid could become the next great whatever.... Another one I've thought about, Terrence and Harrell for Leonard. I'd do that one if Portland would throw in a future second. I'd also do Terrence and Harrell for Richaun Holmes, Danny Granger, and either Spencer Dinwiddie, or Darrun Hilliard.
Its obvious you don't think much of Jones .... in that you'd trade him for a list of 2nd round rookies or a washed up Granger but to throw Harrell in with him for that same list is just crazy , especially when you consider you'd be trading away two PF's and that only one of the players on your list plays that position. I'd consider swapping him for Portis myself but see no incentive for Chicago to do that and I like Meyers Leonard but he's expiring & is a center .... Leonard is kinda pointless when you have Howard , Capela , DMo & Hayes all able to play the spot and you create a gaping hole at PF by moving two of the three on the roster. I think you would give Jones away for a half eaten bag of chips ....
No, I don't think much about Jones. I don't feel like he can help us win and I can look up and down NBA rosters and almost all of them have a young PF on a rookie contract with "potential". However the most important factor is I don't think he has very much trade value and won't have going forward. But hopefully if we keep him (we won't) he explodes in growth and his trade value goes through the roof. All the same...I'm not for trading him for peanuts. In my trade I suggested there we're basically trading Harrell for Holmes (that's youngster for youngster) and we're trading Terrence for a high second round pick (either Dinwiddie or Hilliard). Personally, if you've seen my write-up on Hilliard, I think he's a player. He's a rookie signed to a multi-year rookie deal. He's got great defensive potential at the point and he can knock down shots. Hilliard is a potential better Beverley. He has serious potential. Dinwiddie? Same thing. He's not trash. He would've been a first rounder if not for his injury. And he's signed, sealed, and delivered for the next 2 seasons with next season being non-guaranteed. Detroit doesn't really need BOTH of Dinwiddie/Hilliard since they've signed Steve Blake and they still have Brandan Jennings on the roster this season. So, I'm looking at possibly stealing one of them. That's not a trash trade, Corrosion. Study young players. Both of those guys have serious potential and we won't have to pay them if they turn out to be good for at least 2 years. That's the ideal spot to be in with a young "potential" player. ============================================= Here's another one: Jones/Harrell for Shelvin Mack, Mike Muscala, and a future second rounder. Same scenario. Mike Muscala is a 5/4 that can flat-out shoot the rock and can play in a twin towers alignment. He's proven he can play in an NBA rotation and he can definitely spread the floor. He's a better fit here for us than Terrence and ATL is short on 4's if Mike Scott's legal troubles continue for an extended period of time. Shelvin Mack? Hasn't shown much at the NBA level yet but he was a "in the trenches" guy at Butler. He's a gamer. And he fits as a 3rd string PG. And his contract (non-guaranteed next season) is a fit. You'll probably call that trade trash too. And I think ATL wouldn't even consider it. So...it's probably pretty close to a fair trade and won't happen.
I'd trade Jones for Muscala , I even mentioned a similar trade earlier in the thread. But that trade is totally different than sending Jones out the door for a washed up 3 (Granger) or a collection of second round players at who cant replace Jones minutes at the 4 and would be behind solid veterans to boot. I might consider Jones for Leonard ..... If Leonard wasn't about to hit FA too. Would probably swap Jones for Portis too .... but I'm not throwing in Harrell and getting a return of a rookie 2nd round point , rookie second round swing man , a washed up wing .... or adding Harrel to the deal and taking a guy taken behind him in the draft.
The point is you get a cheap replacement for Jones. Jones will be traded this season. No way Morey keeps both D-Mo and Jones who are both bound to become free agents after the season. Look, i'm not that high on Markieff either but that $8mil/yr contract is a bargain compared to what players are getting/will be getting with the expected major bump in salary cap. As you've said, he is not that much of an upgrade to Jones but if you factor in their salaries, you will see the difference in value. Again, we won't be able to afford to keep Jones. Morey knows teams will come in with ridiculous offers come off-season. He will look to cash in asap.
I've said the same thing when it comes to the reasons to trade Jones as it isn't likely you keep both and DMo is the more valuable player due to versatility. But I just don't think Morris is the right guy .... and he'd likely be a backup. That $8m isn't such a bargain for a backup especially when you consider what you have to send out to make the salaries match. I'd much rather look at younger players with more years remaining on their rookie deals or a cheap FA. Trading a cheap Jones for a mid level contract like Morris isn't a Morey type move ....
