Actually, it's less like a lottery ticket and more like a hand of poker. You don't bet the same amount regardless of the cards you are holding, you bet according to what your chances of winning are. You might lose with a full house, and you might win with a pair of twos, but that doesn't mean you should treat them equally. This is an especially apt comparison, because as your investment in serving can affect the tip, so can your betting affect the outcome of the hand.
You can say this in lots of different ways. But to the extent you're treating someone differently because of their skin color...particularly in a negative way...you have....say it with me now.... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination dis·crim·i·na·tion /dɪˌskrɪməˈneɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-skrim-uh-ney-shuhn] –noun 2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.
How the the fact that the waiter being black change anything. Black people are more racist than white people because they hate ******s, too.
Don't walk into oncoming traffic, don't jump off of buildings, and don't serve black people. Lessons in life. Awesome.
Perhaps this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Maybe black people don't tip as much because they consistently get crappier service from waiters who think they don't tip as much. Isn't providing good service part of the basic job description? Do restaurants pay their staff to treat some customers like crap because they don't provide as much of a voluntary tip?
Good points. Even if waiters do get stiffed and don't make enough money to cover their hourly wages the restaurant they work up has to make up the difference. I am not saying it is OK to stiff your waiter, as I always tip 20-50%, but acting like you lose out is a falsehood because if the difference is that large it has to be made up by the restaurant. That's the thing, usually wait staff makes more than they normally would working for minimum wage or above. As said before, they should try to maximize their tips by treating every one equal. It is their job to do so.
That doesn't apply here. It's not just because the belong to a certain group. It is based on tipping merit. I know it is hard for people to see the difference. Black waiters are not hesitant about waiting on black people just because they are black. That doesn't make sense. It's all about the money. Sorry max but if a group of Pentecostals who don't believe in tipping come in and the waiters know it about them, their service will be crap. Call it discrimination, I call it karma. I don't think yall know how pissed waiters get on no/low tips. I have known waiters to confront people in parking lots to ask them why their tip was so low. I remember one guy throwing his tip in quarters at a customers car. And yes restaurants pay you to wait on everyone. $2.50 an hour. You live on tips.
Good artice: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/jerrylarge/2003051233_jdl11.html Tipping as a race issue: Waiters and diners, mutually wary By Jerry Large Seattle Times staff columnist A few years ago a student in a journalism class I was teaching wrote a column I still remember. She was helping put herself through college by working as a waitress at a restaurant downtown and discovered a phenomenon that troubled her. The wait staff would sometimes grumble about Canadians. And if a party of black people came in, they would avoid waiting on that table. It turned out "Canadians" was how the staff referred to black customers so as not to be overheard making what might be construed as racially biased comments. I do hope some poor Canadian didn't overhear. The young writer, feeling bad for the customers and upset with her co-workers, would serve black customers herself, at first anyway. Soon enough she began to share her co-workers' view. Black customers didn't tip as well as other customers, and a few didn't tip at all. And worse, they could be demanding and touchy about any perceived slight. She felt bad about her changing attitude, partly because it violated her sense of herself, and partly because not all customers fit the pattern. This situation is common, but almost always plays out without discussion across racial lines. I'm very conscious of my behavior and tipping in restaurants. I want to leave a good impression, partly due to my assumption that servers might have some bias against me. When waiters are especially nice, I sometimes overdo. It's dumb all around. I was reminded of the young server when I saw a report on race and tipping from the Center for Hospitality Research at Cornell University. Waiters and black customers are both wary of each other, it said. Black people get poorer service, waiters get poor tips and the cycle keeps reinforcing itself. It wasn't long ago that laws changed to allow black people into businesses that would not have permitted us before, and we weren't always welcomed warmly. Many black folks weren't up to speed on the culture of restaurant dining as it is practiced in more affluent communities. Surveys find an attitude difference too, as black folks wonder why restaurants don't just pay their help a decent salary to begin with. The report's author, Cornell professor Michael Lynn, wrote, "... Many restaurant servers dislike waiting on Black customers, deliver inferior service to Black guests on whom they must wait, and refuse to work in restaurants with a predominantly Black clientele." There are differences between white tipping and that of Latinos and Asians as well, but the report said those differences aren't as great. One waiter said, "... all the servers I work with hate having to wait on minorities, Black people, in particular, (and over half or our wait staff is Black!!!)." There is less of a tipping gap as income and education go up, but it doesn't entirely disappear. Also it isn't just a black/white thing, in that the race of the server doesn't seem to affect tip size. Studies have found servers leery of other groups as well, "foreigners, women, teenagers, the elderly and anyone bearing coupons." The Cornell study mentioned other surveys that found white people were twice as likely to be familiar with the 15- to 20-percent rule. Sometimes black customers tip a flat amount that stays the same regardless of the bill size, so that it can be generous for a small bill, but not so good for a fancier spread. Tipping shows up everywhere, not just in restaurants, and it can get terribly complicated. Whole books have been written on the topic, and many people feel some discomfort with it. A lot depends on whether the circumstances are familiar to you. Black people tip some servers well — hotel maids and bartenders for example — sometimes giving them much more than white customers do. People learn about tipping by growing up in a certain social strata, by being employed in jobs that include tips or from someone who has been in one of those jobs. It's even more complicated. One survey found that customers tip white cab drivers more than black drivers. That includes black customers. Etiquette guides say tipping is an option, but it really isn't. A lot of employers rely on tips to make up for small paychecks. It's part of the cost of the meal. Lynn has suggested restaurants do some outreach to black churches for instance, or place informative placards in their businesses, and that they coach servers to give their best to all customers. Like a lot of problems, this one lives on assumptions and silence. A little talk would be toxic to it.
I think another factor most people aren't considering in this situation is the education level of the workers in restaurants. I think it can generally be accepted that less educated people and people working in lower income situations are going to naturally be more likely to buy into racial (and other) stereotypes.
Nope, I disagree with the whole system of tipping in general. I think everyone should receive the same level of competent service, because that is the waiters job. I couldn't imagine another line of work where you determine you level of effort before you begin based on how much money you assume your customer will give you beyond you normal pay. I just understand the meaning of what is going on, and it is nothing like the lottery. The lottery is totally random. Some of the tickets will be winners, some will be losers, and there is no way to determine beforehand which is more likely from your ticket. If one group of customers (be they black, church goers, people in uniform, girls with guy names like Sam, or redheads) tips fairly consistently below average, and the waiter is going to determine how much effort he puts into his job based on the tip he expects, then it is expected that the poor tipping groups will receive worse service, even if the particular party in question tips $100 on a cup of coffee.
I generally don't form an opinion of a waiter or anyone for that matter before I have spoken to them. How could these people know the waiter was being racist? It appears they left even before anyone even talked to them. What if the waiter was just having a bad day, and took out his frustrations on all the patrons throughout the day? There is no secret video camera recording all the waiter's actions that day, so I give the benefit of doubt to the waiter. If you want to see racism, look up those undercover videos by a news team in Calgary. There you can see obvious racism directed toward black patrons. I'm glad they got caught.
What you're saying here isn't quite true. You are correct in saying that this is not a study of whether or not black people actually tip less. But this is a valid study into the thinking of restaurant employees about how well blacks tip.
Pentecostals have beliefs. Black people have their skin color. Are you honestly suggesting that the pigment in your skin affects your capacity to tip?? Seriously?? Again...if you're withholding service from a person because of skin color, then you are...wait for it....discriminating against that INDIVIDUAL. you're making assumptions about people because of the color of their skin. i don't care if you did a survey and found it was true for the group...that individual sitting at that table is being discriminated against. spin it how you like.
Yea. Pentecostals have beliefs. Waiters have beliefs about getting tipped too. If you would actually read my posts I claimed that it had nothing to do with skin color and that it was culturally based why a group of people may not tip. But the bottom line is that it is money based for the waiters. Nobody wants to work for free. Read the article I posted Max. The author is not screaming discrimination or racism. He gets it. Why would a black person prefer not to wait tables in a predominantly black clientèle restaurant other than money? Are you allowed to make that choice before you take a job? If you choose the job that pays better does that make you a discriminating racist?
Just because it's a black person refusing to provide the best service doesn't make it less racist or not racist at all. NEWS FLASH: People can discriminate against their own race.
I can buy a culture argument as well as the self-fulfilling prophecy argument with this apparent phenomenon. Consider that integrated dining really only began in the 60's and grew in the 70's. That is not that long ago and can create perceptions that are still believed by new generations today. For waiters it started with perhaps not wanting to serve blacks in the early days, having bad attitudes and giving bad service. As a result blacks, who were not a part of the white "country club" that was the US prior to Civil Rights don't have the tip mentality built into their dining experience. Them if their early experiences are always poor, why reward that? As a result the waiters get less overtly racist but continue the belief that they will not get good tips and thus service suffers. I have seen firsthand when bad service has obviously been racially motivated so this is not something that doesn't exist and is only being perpetuated by people claiming racism (I love that argument by the way - all we need to do is stop talking about or pointing out racism and then racism will go away). Further blacks being wary of racism and bad service will undoubtedly be more sensitive to perceived slights that could then lead to further bad service. I do agree with those that think tipping should go away with waiting and such. They should earn real salaries that will ensure solid service for all and only if the patron really wants to reward service should tipping be involved - something like a dollar or two. I guess prices on meals would go up because the restaurants would want to recoup their losses, but with no tips it could even out for the customer as well.
Yeah, the power of positive thinking is awesome. I heard a rumor on this very board that negativity was the only thing standing in the way of victory in Iraq, too. Meowgi: I get your point, I guess. But no matter what the history is it still points to punishing one black guy because of what another (or even a million others) did. And that **** ain't right.
