tigermission1, very nice post, and very passionate I had tremendous respect for Pippen's play, and it pains me even more that it didn't work out for the Rockets. It really bothers me that nowadays, people just diss those all time greats, and compare them to some young talented players who haven't achieved anything at all.
If Pippen was so great he wouldn't have been hampered by the system. He was a very good all-around player, an excellent defender. but I think his offense was somewhat overrated. he was good a bringing the ball up and setting up the offense but I never thought he was good a penetrating and getting to the basket. people talk like he had point guard skills but that really isn't true imo.
I can't stand Quitten, but only because of his tenure with the Rockets, not as him being a basketball player. With the Rockets, he was playing in a new system with Mobley and Dickerson as your jump shooters. His job is to sit at the 3 point line while Barkley and Dream posts up. I think he was utilized wrong. That, imo, is a strike against the coaching staff. With THAT said, I can not see eye to eye with the way he handles himself. His crying and whining made him very annoying to the Rockets and their fans. I believe that his play deteriorated since he left the Bulls. You can say it's old age, but I think his ego also got to him. To say that Quitten was nothing without MJ is not entirely correct. His 1994 season was great, but you can't say he played with a bunch of "nothings." You lose MJ, but Horace Grant, Toni Kukoc, and others were still there to support. Kukoc was in his prime and wasn't the "bust" he turned out to be that year. More importantly, Phil Jackson was the coach and the team made it to the semifinals, led by Quitten. Don't forget that the series was take to 7 games, with the home team winning each game. (vs. NYK) However, his spectacular plays are seemingly still in line with MJ's presence. With MJ around, Quitten has a lot of help offensively and defensively. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a good player, but it's easy to look good playing with Jordan. (Think Paxson, Armstrong, Longley, Cartwright, Levingston, Wellington, etc....) They are pieces to accomodate Jordan. Quitten was a sidekick, just like he wasn't really the premiere player when he was with Portland and the team choked against the Lakers. Steve Smith, amongst others made the team contending, Quitten is a good help. However, you can't say that the team is lost without him. If MJ gets in foul trouble (very seldom with the officials and the 'Jordan Rules'), you can sense a turn of the momentum. With that said, Quitten is bitter to the Rockets because they didn't play his style and Barkley lashed into him in retaliation. As a result, we hate him and he probably felt it in a way. He's not a total professional, and that should be enough to diminish his status as a great NBA player. His stats and his rings will be recognized, but his attitude has a long way to go.
This is too easy. First, you complain about RJ's stats being overrated because of who he plays with, only to say Pippen didn't depend on a great PG. No, he arguably depended on the greatest player to every play the game. Moreover, for someone who lives in the East and watches him play all the time, surely you know that the beginning of last season Kidd was inured and out for 20 games, and mediocre for 20 thereafter, where Jefferson just so happened to play even better. I am not infatuated with him...just pointing out a comparison. There are others, too.
No, it's not just about stats, though that obviously does tell you something. You can't just show up and put up stats - which is why I concede that Pippen was a very good player. But the fact that you are actually attempting to throw praise on a player for more than just stats when the player, when put to the task as the actual leader of the team, failed miserably is beyond me. Did he still go to the playoffs without MJ. Sure. He only had a playoff caliber team coached by perhaps the greatest coach in NBA history (top 3 no doubt). And he failed when his team needed him most, REFUSING to go into a game when it mattered. The very same principles showed up again when he failed to lead a superior talent team past the Lakers. One thing was clear during Pippen's season with the Bulls without MJ - he was finally glad to be free of MJ and show what he could really do, only to cry about being used as a decoy. PATHETIC. It does go beyond stats. Pippen has time and time and time again shown his class in this league. I don't give an ass how many freaking rings he won as Robin to MJ's Batman. He is a classless individual and a weak leader. He's a champion by association in my book. Um, probably more?? Again, Pippen had great talent. A SF with those great all-around skills would have been a tremendous asset. Rudy T. and company tried to get one for Hakeem frequently. But so could a handful of other players. Since somebody brought his name up, we probably would have won more championships with Mitch Richmond in his prime, too. What's the point? That Olajuwon was awesome!
Passionate! Pippen deserves to be in the 50 greatest. if people are objective (as hard as becoming a billionaire), they won't question his career as a BB player. I know many people who list Pippen as their favorite player to watch. The guy is the ultimate team player. it might be a stretch to say he is the best all-around player (which is not far off anyway), but he is the best team player during the glorious 8 years. He is not the most skillful off the court, particularly facing the media. his action on the court speaks volume. He acknowledged that he learned so much from MJ. if you have watched post game interview in his first couple of years.... People say that he was the perfect sidekick of MJ. In reality, it was a perfect partnership. If you look at the benefit coming out of the partnership, the credits that are attributed to them, you can argue that Pippen is short-changed. If you look at where Pippen came from, and where he ended up. I am sure he knows how much he owes MJ, but it does not change his accomplishment on the court as "THE" partner for MJ peace n1]His reasoning is ab absolute joke. He's looking at nothing more than stats and apparently didn't watch a single damn game for the Bulls during their championship runs or even during those nearly 2 seasons Pippen played without Jordan, STILL carrying the team to very respectable numbers (wins-wise, playoffs-wise). The man's logic (or lack thereof) goes like this: RJ has comparable numbers to Scottie Pippen, therefore they're about equal!!!!!!!!!!!! If there was EVER a statement that tells you a person doesn't know what the heck they're talking about ,that should be it. Using the same logic, Steve Francis is on the same level as Isiah Thomas, Mitch Richmond isn't that far off from Drexler, and Stockton is worse than Marbury as an overall player. A great player is measured by his impact on his team, not his stats. Stockton didn't score all that much, but he impacted the game in ways no PG since has (Nash is close though); Pippen scored decent and could easily have been a 20+ PPG player without Jordan, not able to win it all, but still good enough to make some noise in the playoffs (which his Bulls did in the one year Jordan didn't play). I vividly remember that year when Pippen was injured and the Bulls were struggling to hang around .500 with Michael freakin' Jordan, and every time they ask MJ he just said, "enjoy this, because once Pip comes back, we will run the table on the league". Pippen's impact on the game on both ends of the court is only matched by a select few in NBA history (just because he deferred to a greater player such as MJ doesn't mean he couldn't score more than his career 17ppg or so). His impact on the court went WAAAAY beyond his stats; he was by FAR the best one-on-one lockdown defender in league history, I have never seen anyone come even close (no, not passing lanes, I am talking old skool shutdown defense that's a rarity these days). Pippen's impact on the game was far greater than you're making it to be. The simple fact that you say "If RJ was with Jordan, why wouldn't they win all those rings they won?" is such a dumb -- but telling -- statement that it really disqualifies anything you have to say. But since you enjoy playing the "switching roles" game, answer this question: if Pippen in his prime played with Dream in his prime, how many championships would the Rockets have won? I guess objectivity is a rarity on this board. Now that I have addressed that part of his silly argument, let me go back to the part about Pippen's tenure with the Rockets... As I said: he was a bad fit on this team. Things would've been better if we hadn't acquired Pippen. We had a team of aging once-50-greatest caliber players who didn't like one another much, threw blame at one another when things didn't go well, acted like a bunch of kids, and eventually we had to break 'em apart. Pippen was not graceful at all in the way he left the team, as many have already said, and that was childish and unprofessional on his part (but not unprecedented in the NBA). That part I can't defend him, he was wrong, and Barkley was at fault too. Still, the main reason why things turned sour quickly was that those guys just didn't fit and didn't defer to one another, and egos came into play.[/QUOTE]
Pippen was a great player with the Bulls, but he just gave up with the Rockets. Perhaps Dream and Barkley were mailing it in as well at the time, but no worse than Pippen.
During that season Kukoc was a rookie that averaged 11 points while shooting 43% from the field and 27% from behind the line. Grant did come to play and BJ and Kerr hit their open shots. However, that team still lost the leagues best player, and Pip still led them to a great season. This season is showing how great of a coach PJ is. Pippen wasn't a premiere player in Portland because he was 34 and past his prime. That was clearly evident in our playoff series against LA, when Kobe kept abusing him. Jordan made Pippen look good defensively? Funny that no other player looked so good next to MJ....
He was also bragging about how he had good games better than Jordan but Jordan got the credit of the win.
If you don't like Pippen because he is an ass, then I agree. But how did Pippen fail miserably to lead his team in the lone season without Jordan (93/94). He only led the team in most categories.... The Blazers were not a superior team compared to the Lakers. Didn't the Lakers have two top 10 players that year (arguably two top 5), and one of the games best?
The Rockets team with Barkley was an entirely different environment than the one Pippen used to in Chicago. The old Bulls used to practiced so hard that PJ had to call off the session so they wouldn't kill each other during the practice. After coming over to the Rockets, the practice was so loose, Pippen complained several times to the Chicago media that Rudy didn't have control over the players, players were lazy, particularly Barkley. I think that's where his "players don't want to win" comment comes from. Pippen was a very immature person off the court, but it's unreal to dispute him as one of the best in NBA history. During his peak with the Bulls, he was a better defender than MJ, a favorite of the defensive coach Johnny Bach. He covered so much ground on the defense, which enabled MJ to gamble for steals frequently. During the Bulls run, their defense consistently ranked among the leader in the league, and Pippen was the anchor of their defense, not MJ.
OK iam just asking for it but since i am a rocket fan and i believe to be one it is REQUIRED to hate that money w****. (just my very subtle bleief, i am entitled to it). I am gonna stir the pot so here it goes: Even Buck Johnson was better than him anytime we played them in his prime.
Pippen is a great player but he is not a Hall of Famer of Top 50 player. To be a Hall of Famer you should at least make the all star team 10 times. Pippen only made it 7 and of course he had a lil help from MJ. His offense is over rated too. He would be a second team hall of famer if there was one. As for the Top 50 player he shouldn't have made it , just like Shaq (chosen on potential) at the time...but later Shaq proved he shoul of made it . He complained about the system, if he was so great as others have metioned no system would contain him. I understand where Pippen is coming from in regards to not taking that last shot . He should of taking the last shot since he was the leader/captain. He wanted to prove that "Robin" could have his day. However, YOU DONT SIT OUT ON YOU TEAMMATES , NEVER . There is some truth to the Hakeem and Sir Charles not working hard situation. They always wanted to win , but the effort was not there. Hakeem had a reason(actually two) , Barkley always had problems with weight and not being focused. Pippen was wrong to criticize the whole organization.
After watching the whole interview, pippen seemed pretty full of himself to me. About the sitting out the final play of the game when Kukoc made the winning shot, he said he regretted it, but then tried to justify it etc. that was pretty weak. Also about all the stuff with barkley, he said that after barkley said "he came to houston to get his money," that the door was open for him to basically get back at barkley and thats why pippen called him fat and all that other stuff. If he really wanted to establish a great team with the rockets he would have tried to work stuff out wtih the chuckster. I got the sense that even though the team was somewhat successful, he had given up on it way before he should have. also, stephen a. said that he thought that if the bulls in 94 (without jordan) had made it to the finals, they would have beaten the rockets! that was probably the dumbest thing hes said in a long time.
Hahahhahha my goodness. You do realize that All Star selections are primarily a popularity contest right? Even the reserves are chosen with biasness by coaches. Last time I checked, winning rings was a lot more important than all-star selections when a player's HOF credibility was questioned. And no one said he was an offensive player. He was a defensive player first and a scorer second. He was average/good on the offensive end but he was great on the defensive end. When you have a player averaging 20 ppg 8 rpg 5 apg 2.9 spg 1 bpg on 48% shooting during Jordan's absence, you're damn good. Are we talking even about the same guy here? You keep believing that Pippen was an offensive force. No one, not even Pippen, would believe that. Sure that was a b*tch move, but they went 55-27 without jordan and almost made it to the ECF with Pippen leading them. End of story. Of course I agree he's in the wrong for taking a jab at the Rockets organization. Everyone--players,coaches, Les, city of Houston--embraced him when he signed. We even tried to let his brainfart mistake in the playoffs against the Lakers slide. But then he started burning bridges and what not. You can hate him for that (I do) but to say he wasn't a great player in his prime...my goodness.
