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QE forever - Sustainable?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by saitou, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. dmoneybangbang

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    Cell phones aren’t currency.... What if you need something before 5 years? Like the next day....

    What you are describing sounds like a crap currency.

    Through space and time is so very vague...

    So you are explaining to me why the USD is so valuable... but what about cryptocurrency?
     
  2. dmoneybangbang

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    The internet is infinitely more useful than bitcoin...people still buying pizzas with it?
     
  3. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    It would be unwise to let go of precious/scarce bitcoin for pizza when merchants are still willing to accept inferior/depreciating USD. Soon that won't be the case.
     
  4. dmoneybangbang

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    So USD is superior as a currency for the foreseeable future.

    Deflationary currency is not good. Why you think inflation is worse than deflation is beyond me.
     
  5. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    USD is an inferior store of value, so people are more willing to offload it to make purchases, rather than bitcoin.

    As adoption increases, fewer merchants will accept USD and more will accept bitcoin.

    It's immaterial to me whether you understand why savings will migrate to the scarcest asset, or why it's a good thing for purchasing power of savings to increase over time. The great thing about bitcoin is it doesn't require persuading the powerful or the voters.

    Not trying to persuade, trying to describe/warn so people can get on the train before it leaves the station. But it will happen regardless.
     
  6. dmoneybangbang

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    Wha? The USD is a great store of value since it’s consistent... If we are talking about currency.

    USD isn’t a risk asset like Bitcoin, it’s meant to to be a medium of exchange.

    It’s going to take hundreds of thousands of merchants to accept bitcoin to make a dent... but without a surging price the users won’t invest in it.

    Kind of a catch 22....

    Well you should if you are investing your money into something... If we are talking about “votes”, it’s polling like Andrew Yang.

    Don’t forget the investing mantra “ past performance is no guarantee of future results”.

    Gold bugs becoming crypto-bugs is only natural..
     
    saitou likes this.
  7. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    the USD has lost 97% of its value in 50 years. Its a god awful store of value. you even state above why its intentionally an awful store of value (to force people to buy stuff aka not store dollars).
     
  8. dmoneybangbang

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    And how much has the economy expanded in 50 years? I think there’s misunderstanding of how a currency should function.... How much has bitcoin risen in the last 5 years? Why is it a good thing for currency to continually rise in value?

    Do you understand the point of currency as a medium for exchange?

    The properties you seem to think are good, makes it a good risk asset...
     
  9. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    whether its a good medium exchange (its not) has nothing to do with what you just said. You claimed the USD was a 'great store of value' which is utterly and provably false by design. Nobody buries their money in the backyard or puts it under their mattress for the obvious reason that the dollar is a horrible store of value.
     
  10. dmoneybangbang

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    It is.... You just seem to have a 19th century view of money.

    Most people don’t use dollars like that... they exchange dollars for risk assets, precious metals, bonds in order to grow their wealth....

    Most people use their dollars for commerce... dollars for chipotle meal.
     
  11. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    yea because those are better stores of value than the dollar..........
     
  12. dmoneybangbang

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    Because they are risk assets and not currencies....

    Who is exchanging their bitcoins for stocks? Bitcoin is not a good store of value since value is volatile.... USD is a good store of value because it isn’t....aka a good currency or medium of exchange.

    The money supply and thus inflation is a function of the massive global growth in the economy that has occurred over the past 50 years... Store of value is contextual....

    You are Commodore can’t seem to explain why deflation, increasing value in a currency, is a good thing.

    Bitcoin is a risk asset in 2019, that’s why you are on this “store of value” kick.
     
  13. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    nobody. bitcoin is a much better store of value than any stock.

    the USD has lost 97% of its value in 50 years while bitcoin has gone up over 100% just this year (as with most years of its existence). your claim is that i should store my value in USD and not bitcoin. this isn't hard. you are the worst money manager I've ever heard of.

    building capital shouldn't need to be explained. its obvious.

    what is this 'in 2019 garbage'?

    bitcoins lows each year:

    2012: $4
    2013: $65
    2014: $200
    2015: $185
    2016: $365
    2017: $780
    2018: $3200
    2019: $3500
     
    #73 tallanvor, Dec 31, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  14. dmoneybangbang

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    Based on decades upon decades of data? Or based off less than a decade of data?

    Is there a noxious gas link in your building?

    What was the point of me explaining how people use their USD in real life.... Who is burying their dollars in their backyard or stuffing them under the mattress? ... speaking of poor money managers.

    How do you build capital in a deflationary environment...

    All the inflation that you poo poo is the environment where all this wealth was generated.

    Ooooooh. Now I understand, you don’t think bitcoin is risk asset because you think there’s no risk....

    You are convinced, like a person selecting a stock, that it’s just going to keep going up and never fail.

    Like I told Commodore..... the investing mantra is “past performance isn’t indicative of future performance”.
     
  15. saitou

    saitou J Only Fan

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    Your first sentence explains why the second sentence won't happen. If bitcoin stores its value so well, no one will use if for everyday transactions, killing its adoption as a currency. As long as fees and taxes for gov services are denominated in USD, USD is here to stay. Not dismissing BTC's value, just don't count on it becoming a currency replacement.
     
  16. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    They will use it when sellers accept nothing else.

    No one alive has experienced the monetization of an asset, so we don't recognize the process as it is happening in real time.
     
  17. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    how is bitcoin supposed to hold value against the possibility of an infinite amount of other crypto currencies
     
    #77 pgabriel, Jan 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
    Commodore likes this.
  18. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    I'm afraid the kind of train you have boarded is not at all what you were expecting.
     
  19. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    Those other currencies cannot replicate bitcoin's monetary certainty, transaction immutability, and proof of work.
     
  20. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    The same way any currency in the last 5000 years has won out. I personally dont think Bitcoin has long shelf life... in other words, I wouldn't hoard and forget it about it for 20 years. I do believe it is one of the most secure to date.
    That said, we are a step or two away from making gold obsolete...which has been one of the longest running SOV in the history of mankind. And the USD much sooner than that.
     

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