Irving isn't a poor defender he is trash. Lin is hands down better than him way better. Irvings synergy defense numbers are 1.03 (worst among all PGs by far) allows defenders to shoot 48.5% against him, ranks 447th in the NBA. Lin's Synergy Defense was 0.81 (128th, 335 poss). Lin struggles in defending iso's & spot ups but his pnr defense was really good. Irving is however a great passer sure he can work on his passing but it is already pretty damn good.
First year didn't mean much since he played 10 minutes. He still shot 42% from downtown. 2nd year he shot very efficiently. 3rd year was an anomaly but it was a 40 game sample size. Maybe it was because he was adapting to playing with Dirk or he was injured I don't remember. Nash has always been an excellent shooter imo. His first few years were all messed up because he played behind other PGs and never had the minutes he deserved. Also having high FG% does not necessarily correlate with being a good shooter. There are other ways to score besides shooting jump shots. Nash is a career 49/43/90.5 shooter.... He was already a great shooter before he entered the nba.
Those stats don't mean much. The Knicks were a top 5 defensive team last year. The Cavs were were nearly the worst defensive team. Even a poor defender can look good with good team defense. Its true though that Lin is the superior defender but its misleading since the Knicks gave up 8 less points per game than the Cavs last season. Quite a huge margin.
Statistics don't tell the whole story but you can't just ignore them. Watching games you can see why Kyrie struggles on the defensive end. He has only average lateral quickness, a short wingspan for his height, & poor instincts on that end of the court he can't defend anything, spot ups, iso, pnr. Defenders shot 49% against Kyrie thats all on him. Definitely Lin had a boost on his defense from the reigning DPOY but doesn't change the fact that even though neither Lin and Kyrie are good at preventing penetration Lin was significantly better than him. My entire point was that there is a much bigger gap between the two of them on the defensive end, Lin is a lot better the language in your initial post suggested the opposite.
anybody can explain to me , whatta mean that quote on the music Mula by Big Sean "got that China white, call it Jeremy Lin"
China White is referring to purest of heroin, in white powder form. It comes from the Golden Triangle.
on defense, i haven't watched enough of Irving so i won't comment about his defense. but i've watched enough of Lin to confidently say that he is an above average single-coverage defender. i think he has been inaccurately labeled as a bad defender (as well as some other things) by the media and people like SAS and casual NBA fans on message boards like realgm. for instance, in Golden State, if you've been following and watched his games, he was known more for his hustle and single-coverage defense (watch the Golden State vs Houston game for a good example of this). in Golden State, they had Curry and Ellis handling the bulk of the offense so Lin didn't really had a lot of opportunities to run the offense. plus, he was yanked by Keith Smart at the very first signs of any mistake in favor of Acie Law. just before and at the start of Linsanity, in New York, Lin played some single-coverage defense quite well (New York vs. New Jersey for example, where he slowed Deron Williams down considerably). during Linsanity, he was played heavy minutes in a condense season mind you, as the main focus on offense so he didn't put a lot of energy on single-coverage defense. instead he played team-defense and rotation quite well. after Linsanity, with the whole squad fairly healthy and active, Woodson shifted the offense more towards isolation and Melo and as Lin's load on the offensive end lessened a bit, he was able to focus a bit more on single-coverage defense as the need rises (New York vs Milwaukee game for example, especially during the final minutes of the game). so, from what i've seen and from stats (allowing just .71 points-per-possession on defense during Linsanity, around .81 for the season), Lin has been more than capable on the defensive end. at least, i don't think Houston has anything to worry about the point guard's position on the defensive side. and i'm pretty sure Houston picked Lin up last year not only because they saw his potentials as a floor general, but also because of his single-coverage defense, his size as point guard, his bbiq, and his ability to get into the lane and break down the defense (the infamous summer league game Dallas vs. Washington is another good example that showcased a lot of his abilities).
Irving IS ridiculously good, in terms of his overall one-on-one skill set, but I was not overly impressed with how he was running his team. Lin is NOT as good as Kyrie, IMHO, in terms of dribbling, shooting, and several other skills, however, I was truly impressed with his "command" of the floor and ability to maximize the players around him. Rubio plays the game well. Anyone can see that. Court vision, is possibly one of the greatest assets for a great PG, however, his offense needs to put more pressure on the offense. Until then, I consider him the weakest of the bunch. Interestingly, the 3 young pgs all showed similar amount of brilliance and their stats and number of wins weren't that much different We'll see over the next couple of years, who is destined for greatness and who will fall off. I hope at least one of them can achieve that soon.
Fixed it'll be interesting to see where they'll improve,and if they (along with dragic) becomes top pgs,i'll be stoked.:grin:
I thought the exact same thing! It's hard to understand what he thinks Lin did to Carmelo or other black people for RV6 to HATE Lin THAT MUCH; maybe he can shed some light. Lin is a good young man, who just tried his best at his paying job. Lin has a lot of black friends and both of his agents he chose are black. I haven't visited here for a while and reading this thread, I'm appalled how much RV6 has DOMINATED the conversation, always wanting to have the last word - like it's a debating contest he may have practiced on TV or radio. It would be nice if RV6 concentrates on Carmelo topics at Knicks forums. For now I'll just skip all his comments because it's just TOO MUCH domination. Just wow.
Honestly you wouldn't even need to watch a cavs game if the media talked about it. Kyrie's defensive reputation goes easy on him to be honest. The media never says anything negative about him, it's like he is the chosen one or something. And unfortunately most casual fans appreciate offense more than they do defense & Kyrie is a talented offensive player so that is all they see.
High draft players are covered in the media with their high draft status in mind, which serves as implicit "evidence" for whatever praise is doled out. So coverage of them tends to confirm their draft status. As for Irving not getting ragged on for his defense, I think that's partly because the only kinda meaningful stats for measuring player defense are advanced stats. The TV coverage for casual fans is still bound up with per-game numbers instead of per-possession, or even per-36min. There's just not an easy way to talk about defense stats in casual press coverage.
This is truly a terrific post. Unfortunately, it had been buried beneath all the back and forth in the thread. formido, please post more.
It's called having a discussion. You know, when someone says or asks something to someone and the other person answers.......in case you didn't notice, i had more people to answer to, which is why I responded more than everyone else. If you think i hate Lin "so much" after saying something that's not even close to hateful, then get ready for the start of the season. You'll probably be calling 911 to accuse some posters here of attempted murder. It is, unfortunately i just got a chance to read it completely......my concern with what Lin did is that psychologically he was on a high because of all the attention/support. Not to say he's not capable of still doing the same, or close it, without such a high, but that's the thing, too small of sample size to know if he can maintain it. When all eyes are on you, one tries to step up their game (pun intended). The Linsanity high never really died down until he went down. I'd like to see what he can do now that it's died down and there's been somewhat of a reset. I believe he'll do well, but how well is the question. Formido, what deliberate practices are you referring to? Working out or basketball stuff, or both? I think Allen and nash are another level, not sure I'd put Lin on that level from what I've seen. I did like the fact that Lin went with a less than traditional approach in training. He wasn't doing just the typical running and lifting. I wonder what led him to Sparta Performance... (SpartaScience.com)
