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PRO-POTENTIAL

Discussion in 'NBA Draft' started by who?, Jun 9, 2000.

  1. who?

    who? Member

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    Got this off a website explanation follows.

    Rank Player Pos. College Class Ht.-Wt. PPI
    1 Kenyon Martin PF Cincinnati Senior 6-8 230 93.89
    2 Chris Mihm C Texas Junior 7-0 245 93.82
    3 Stromile Swift PF LSU Sophomore 6-9 235 93.78
    4 Marcus Fizer PF Iowa State Junior 6-8 240 93.65
    5 Michael Miller SF Florida Sophomore 6-8 210 93.48
    6 DerMarr Johnson SF Cincinnati Freshman 6-9 200 93.42
    7 Morris Peterson SG Michigan State Senior 6-6 210 93.36
    8 Courtney Alexander SG Fresno State Senior 6-5 200 93.36
    9 Iakovos Tsakalidis C AEK - Greece 7-2 220 93.31
    10 Darius Miles SF E.St.Louis HS (Ill.) HS Senior 6-9 220 93.07
    11 Desmond Mason SG Oklahoma State Senior 6-6 205 92.96
    12 Ed Cota PG North Carolina Senior 6-1 170 92.78
    13 Joel Przybilla C Minnesota Sophomore 7-0 250 92.78
    14 Quentin Richardson SG DePaul Sophomore 6-5 215 92.59
    15 Jerome Moiso C UCLA Sophomore 6-11 225 92.50
    16 Jason Collier PF Georgia Tech Senior 7-0 250 92.45
    17 Mamadou N'diaye C Auburn Senior 7-0 250 92.43
    18 Erick Barkley PG St. John's Sophomore 6-1 185 92.38
    19 James 'Scoonie' Penn PG Ohio State Senior 5-10 175 92.24
    20 Antonis Fotsis SF Panathinaikos, Greece 6-9 210 92.22
    21 A.J. Guyton PG Indiana Senior 6-1 175 92.14
    22 Mateen Cleaves PG Michigan State Senior 6-2 190 92.10
    23 Lamont Barnes PF Temple Senior 6-9 215 91.78
    24 Soumaila Samake C Cincinnati Stuff (IBL) 7-2 230 90.77
    25 Mark Madsen PF Stanford Senior 6-8 235 90.45
    26 Dan McClintock C Northern Arizona Senior 7-0 245 90.43
    27 Donnell Harvey SF Florida Freshman 6-8 215 90.32
    28 DeShawn Stevenson SG Washington Union, Fresno, CA HS Senior 6-5 210 90.04
    29 Craig 'Speedy' Claxton PG Hofstra Senior 5-10 165 90.02
    30 Chris Carrawell SG Duke Senior 6-6 220 89.82
    31 Olumide Oyedeji PF DJK Wurzburg, Germany 6-9 210 89.78
    32 Etan Thomas PF Syracuse Senior 6-9 230 89.65
    33 Jamal Crawford SG Michigan Freshman 6-6 200 89.62
    34 Brian Cardinal SF Purdue Senior 6-8 230 89.55
    35 Corey Hightower SG Indian Hills C.C. Sophomore 6-7 200 89.35
    36 Pepe Sanchez PG Temple Senior 6-3 190 89.34
    37 Hanno Mottola PF Utah Senior 6-9 220 89.32
    38 Johnny Hemsley SG Miami Senior 6-6 200 89.30
    39 Jason Kapono SF UCLA Freshman 6-8 215 89.27
    40 JaRon Rush SF UCLA Sophomore 6-7 215 89.16
    41 Ernest Brown C Indian Hills C.C. Sophomore 7-0 245 89.15
    42 Lavor Postell SF St. John's Senior 6-6 210 89.13
    43 Chris Porter SF Auburn Senior 6-7 220 89.12
    44 Michael Redd SG Ohio State Junior 6-5 195 89.12
    45 Jason Hart PG Syracuse Senior 6-2 180 89.11
    46 Eduardo Najera SF Oklahoma Senior 6-7 235 89.08
    47 Keyon Dooling PG Missouri Sophomore 6-3 180 89.07
    48 Eric Coley SG Tulsa Senior 6-5 210 89.05
    49 Pete Mickeal SF Cincinnati Senior 6-7 220 89.05
    50 Matt Santangelo PG Gonzaga Senior 6-1 175 88.99


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  2. who?

    who? Member

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    Evaluation of basketball talent is an inexact science. Can he shoot? Can he dribble? Can he rebound? Does he create his own shot? Can he pass? These are the easier qualities a scout or coach must assess when judging one prospect versus another. The harder questions involve intangibles. Is he a leader? How tough is he? Does he want the ball in the final seconds? How will he react to adversity? Does he have presence?


    Go to PPI
    1-50
    51-100
    101-125

    The five players each team puts on the court at one time all have loosely defined roles. How can one evaluate a point guard against a post player or a shooting guard against a power forward? Though teams certainly draft primarily to fill their own specific needs, some certainly will still draft by "the best player available" theory. Well, how do you determine if Chris Porter is a better pro prospect than Terence Morris? Is Scoonie Penn better than Chris Mihm?

    It is with these thoughts in mind that the Player PRO-tential Index (PPI) was developed. With the actual help of several hundred people across the country each year, and their knowledge of players' strengths and weaknesses, we have arrived at a single number for each draft prospect that shows where that prospect stands in relation to his peers. The difficulty in drawing meaningful conclusions from our efforts stems from one word -- subjectivity. Without a clear definition of what constitutes a "10" for ball handling or a "6" for rebounding, one must realize that we are dealing in the inexact. However, even that is uncertain, because we all have different opinions about who the best point guard in the NBA is and who is overrated. All this being said, we offer a vastly superior system of evaluating the talent. Here's how it works.

    We initially determined what physical and mental abilities are essential to being an exceptional basketball player and arrived at the following list of attributes by which to judge all of the players:

    1. Ball Handling: Can he dribble well? In traffic? Can he penetrate? Can he handle full court pressure and traps? Does he protect the ball?

    2. Perimeter Shooting: Can he stroke an open three pointer? Can he come off a pick to nail a jumper? Is he a pureshooter? Does he have a three-point game?

    3. Defensive Skills: A look at a player's defensive ability - inside or on the perimeter, anticipation, help and recover, denial, shot blocking, position.

    4. Rebounding: Simply, does he block out and clear the ball off the glass. Can he go up with the big boys and bring down the ball?

    5. Create His Own Shot: Does he have the ability to create his own opportunities? Is he able to make things happen on the floor by himself?

    6. Offensive Skills: Can he score around the basket? Can he handle contact and put the ball in the hole? Can he showcase a variety of offensive moves?

    7. Passing Skills: Can he see the court and deliver a pass to the open man? Can he make an entry pass? Can he make interior passes? How's his decision-making?

    8. Toughness / Character: What is the player made out of? Does he want to be on the court in crunch time? Who gets the loose balls? Will he take the charge? Do you want him with you in the trenches?

    9. Pro Potential: Does he have the size and ability to use his skills in the pros? Is he a "project" with tremendous upside? Is he the dreaded "good college player", or even worse a "tweener"? Will the skills he exhibited in college translate into success at the next level?

    10. Athleticism: Can he run and jump? Does he have quickness, speed, lateral movement, strength, and conditioning?

    11. Feel For The Game: Does he understand what is going on around him? Can he see changes in the play? Does he instinctively sense and seize opportunities.

    12. Maturity / Leadership: Do you want him leading you into battle? Does he make other people better? A good influence in the locker room? Is he a winner?

    Each player is graded on a scale of one to ten for all twelve categories. If a player were to grade out with a perfect score for every attribute, he would score 120.

    The fact that there are five different positions on the floor, each with a varying degree of application for each rated ability, throws a wrench into our quest for accuracy. Having judged a players ability on a flat scale for each category, we then apply a predetermined formula to certain attributes according to that players agreed upon position on the floor (point guard, two guard, swing guard, small forward, power forward, center). For example, we apply a factor of 1.75 to a point guard's ball-handling rating due to the obvious increased importance on this skill for that position, while applying a .25 factor to that same player's rebounding rating due to the limited role a point guard plays in crashing the glass. Every player, regardless of position, still has the potential to score 100 on the PPI because for every factor that potentially increases an attribute, there are also decreasing factors that balance it out.

    In this way, a point guard isn't penalized for not being a good offensive rebounder, and a center isn't penalized for not being a good ball handler. At the same time, if a post player is an exceptional perimeter shooter, the formula still allows for some degree of separation between that player and his peers at his position, though not as pronounced as if the balancing factor were not used. The goal is simply to emphasize the skills necessary to excel at certain positions, while still acknowledging the added value a player brings to a position by having developed a skill not fundamental to his position.

    The attribute of pro potential is essentially what general managers, scouts and coaches are banking on when they draft a player. The commonly asked question is: "Will this player excel at the professional level?" The proclivity for teams to draft "projects" (players with limited or undeveloped skills that show tremendous upside), especially among big people, skews that player's PPI to a level not consistent with where he will actually be drafted.

    To compile each individual's PPI, we sorted through an extraordinary amount of data, and always extend our gratitude to the hundreds of coaches and scouts that anonymously shared their insights on each player's individual skills. I have also applied my own thoughts to come up with what I think is an excellent way to rate players against each other -- either comparing within one position or comparing all players against each other.


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  3. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    I somewhat doubt that Ed Cota is the 12th best player in this year's draft. He might not even get drafted!

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    Cheaters never win. Unless you play for LA that is.
     
  4. who?

    who? Member

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    just wondering what you guys thought,some quite suprising positions, is desmond mason really that good and if so why is he so low in the draft orders. Personallty I think it's by no mans a fair way of measuring draft talent, but thought you guys might be interested in the read.

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  5. who?

    who? Member

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    Still anything that helps us to explain what some gm's might be thinking is clearly a god-send in my opinion. After all these guys make some crazy decisions.

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  6. outseam

    outseam Member

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    Very interesting system! One thing that sticks out to me is the lack of separation among the top 10-20 players (and perhaps more, I didn't carefully peruse the whole list). That is, Kenyon is not so far ahead of whoever's at #10.

    For comparison, I wonder where immediate impact players like a Larry Bird or Magic Johnson would've scored coming out of college? What about folks who weren't drafted highly but went on to be very productive, and sometimes great players (e.g., Clyde D.)?

    Any ideas? How far back does the database go?

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    [This message has been edited by outseam (edited June 09, 2000).]
     
  7. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    I kinda like Ed Cota, but he definitely will not go 12

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    When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!
     
  8. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Predicting the weather is an inexact science.
    Analyzing future earnings is an inexact science.
    Courtship mating "dances" are an inexact science.
    Even long distance pee-ing is an inexact science.

    But, measuring bball talent is not a science at all. I give you a 00.0 on your PH.D-POTENTIAL in science.
     
  9. 3pointer

    3pointer Member

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    Until I don't become a GOD of some sorts then am through with predictions !!

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    It's all about marketing !
     
  10. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    you can't fool me 3pointer...anyone with a signature about corrupt things like "it's all about marketing" is on the Devil's side.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. 3pointer

    3pointer Member

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    Ok you got me HP .... am not a GOD so am allowed a little evil in me. [​IMG]

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    It's all about marketing !
     
  12. JeffB

    JeffB Contributing Member
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    Here are some CBS Sportsline PRO-tential numbers from last year's draft


    1 Lamar Odom 97.80 Rhode Island Soph. 6-9 220 SF 1
    2 Wally Szczerbiak 95.70 Miami, Ohio Sr. 6-8 230 SF 2
    3 Andre Miller 95.09 Utah Sr. 6-2 200 PG 1
    4 Steve Francis 94.90 Maryland Jr. 6-3 200 PG 2
    5 Elton Brand 94.11 Duke Soph. 6-8 265 PF 1
    6 Quincy Lewis 93.96 Minnesota Sr. 6-7 215 SF 3
    7 James Posey 93.96 Xavier Sr. 6-7 215 SF 4
    8 Jason Terry 93.94 Arizona Sr. 6-2 170 PG 3
    9 Richard Hamilton 92.31 Connecticut Jr. 6-6 195 SG 1
    10 William Avery 91.61 Duke Soph. 6-2 185 PG 4
    11 Scott Padgett 90.63 Kentucky Sr. 6-9 240 PF 2
    12 Ron Artest 90.26 St. John's Soph. 6-6 220 SG 2
    13 Jumaine Jones 90.17 Georgia Soph. 6-7 210 SF 5
    14 Calvin Booth 89.88 Penn State Sr. 6-11 230 C 1
    15 Shawn Marion 89.87 UNLV Jr. 6-7 215 SF 6
    16 Tim James 89.87 Miami Sr. 6-7 200 SF 7
    17 Baron Davis 89.82 UCLA Soph. 6-2 210 PG 5
    18 Frederic Weis 89.30 France N/A 7-1 240 C 2
    19 Vonteego Cummings 89.25 Pittsburgh Sr. 6-4 195 SG 3
    20 Corey Maggette 89.17 Duke Fresh. 6-6 220 SG 4
    21 Venson Hamilton 88.75 Nebraska Sr. 6-10 235 PF 3
    22 Jeff Foster 88.63 Southwest Texas St. Sr. 6-11 235 C 3
    23 Evan Eschmeyer 88.60 Northwestern Sr. 6-11 245 C 4
    24 Todd MacCulloch 88.46 Washington Sr. 7-0 270 C 5
    25 Jonathan Bender 88.42 Picayune HS HS Sr. 6-11 220 C 6
    26 Wayne Turner 88.32 Kentucky Sr. 6-2 190 PG 6
    27 Alek Radojevic 88.02 Barton County CC (KS) Soph. 7-3 245 C 7
    28 Lee Nailon 87.99 TCU Sr. 6-9 225 PF 4
    29 Michael Ruffin 87.51 Tulsa Sr. 6-8 230 PF 5
    30 Casey Frank 87.43 Northern Arizona Sr. 6-9 240 PF 6
    31 A.J. Bramlett 87.31 Arizona Sr. 6-10 220 PF 7
    32 Tyrone Grant 87.28 St. John's Sr. 6-7 240 PF 8
    33 Louis Bullock 86.95 Michigan Sr. 6-2 195 PG 7
    34 Danny Moore 86.89 SW Missouri St. Sr. 6-11 220 C 8
    35 Tim Young 86.88 Stanford Sr. 7-1 245 C 9
    36 Shawnta Rogers 86.34 George Washington Sr. 5-4 155 PG 8
    37 Terrell Baker 86.24 Florida St. Sr. 6-6 205 PG 9
    38 Obinna Ekezie 86.16 Maryland Sr. 6-10 260 C 10
    39 Jamel Thomas 85.93 Providence Sr. 6-6 180 SF 8
    40 Carl Thomas 85.70 College of Charleston Sr. 6-7 195 SF 9
    41 Jamaal Magloire* 85.63 Kentucky Jr. 6-10 260 C 11
    42 Lari Ketner 85.54 Massachusetts Sr. 6-10 270 PF 9
    43 Yegor Mescheriakov 85.45 George Washington Sr. 6-8 225 PF 10
    44 Lonnie Cooper 85.21 Louisiana Tech Sr. 6-5 185 PG 10
    45 Ryan Robertson 85.13 Kansas Sr. 6-5 180 PG 11
    46 Jelani Gardner 85.12 Pepperdine Sr. 6-6 225 PG 12
    47 Francisco Elson 85.10 California Sr. 7-0 235 C 12
    48 Greg Stolt 85.05 Florida Sr. 6-9 225 PF 11
    49 Tyrone Washington 84.99 Mississippi St. Sr. 6-10 260 PF 12
    50 Kenny Thomas 84.97 New Mexico Sr. 6-9 250 PF 13
    http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/basketball/nba/1999/draft/draftrank.htm

    Here is what the CBS analyst had to say about Francis that year:

    Analysis
    By George Rodecker
    Special to SportsLine

    The game is strikingly similar to Allen Iverson’s, but let the comparisons end there. Steve Francis will become a high scoring NBA point guard like Iverson, but will likely end up as a more model citizen. Quite possibly the most explosive player available in this years draft, Francis, who played primarily at the shooting guard position at Maryland will slide over to assume point guard duties in the NBA. His athleticism is unquestionably one of the strongest elements of his game. Very infrequently does a collegiate player emerge who brings the ability to take over and dominate a game. Steve Francis does exactly that! Despite a somewhat frail looking frame, he appears to own all the necessary tools to live long and prosper in the NBA.. Quite capable of earning the “Franchise Player” label and wearing it for several seasons, Francis will certainly be among the first five selections and quite possible be the first overall.
    http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/basketball/nba/1999/draft/steve_francis.htm

    Here is a link to this years index (seen above), complete with overviews of the players. Of course you can't put potential into a number, but the analyst does offer some good insight into the players in the draft.
    http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/ce/feature/0,1518,1474093_54,00.html


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    [This message has been edited by JeffB (edited June 15, 2000).]
     
  13. who?

    who? Member

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    Brilliant info on last year's draft pro-potntial. It's interesting to compare what he thinks of this year's guys and last year's players, also his comments on francis made for interesting reading.

    Thanks Jeff [​IMG]

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  14. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Member

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    Last year they had Tyrone Washington @ 49 & Kenny Thomas @ 50......... Kenny Thomas is still in the NBA & allot of these guys from 30 on are......well where is Tyrone Washington again?

    As for Andre Miller getting a higher rating than Francis & Brand, I can tell they did allot of home work on their #'s & must have spoke to several talent scouts, while getting high.

    This years 12 is Ed Cota & last years was Ron Artest. I see a lot of reasons why they would both be rated 12 as draft PRO-tentials NOT.

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