If Kobe was so clutch then he shouldn't have lost any games in his career, he is clutch right???? What kind of clutch player loses games? Of course Shaq gave Kobe those 3 rings, if he wasn't there Kobe wouldn't even reach the 2nd round we saw what happened when he left. OTH, Shaq won a ring with Wade that shows you he can win with other players and even when he was in Orlando he already brought his team to the Finals. OTH, Kobe couldn't do anything by himself so what makes you say he is better than Lebron? Why don't you count Shaq among Kobe's supporting casts when he is responsible for majority of Kobe's rings? If Shaq wasn't there Kobe wouldn't have gotten 5 rings, he would just have 2 which is 1 less than Lebron. Nobody in their right mind would take Bosh and Wade over prime Shaq, that's not happening at all. So how are the supporting casts in favor of Lebron when he never played with a superstar like Shaq? LOL@saying Gasol was never a superstar but Bosh was one LMAO do you realize Gasol played in the West where all the big men play? If Gasol was playing in the Leastern conference like Bosh and not matching up against Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, KG and all the rest of the Western powers he'd have better stats too. As far as being a superstar Gasol is more a superstar than Bosh ever he Gasol in lock for the HOF. Who cares how many accolades did Gasol, Odom and Bynum have vs Wade and Bosh and Ray Allen? They only played for 3 years together its not like Lebron spent his entire career playing with Wade so if Wade has 9 all stars how does that factor into it? Similarly Odom went crazy and dropped out of the league later on but that was already after his laker years so why does that matter? Kobe played with Gary Payton, Karl Malone and Shaq and couldn't win a ring! How many all star appearances do those 4 guys have compared to Wade and Bosh? If you want to talk about legacy where is Shaq compared to Wade and Bosh in the history books? All your arguments make no sense and would only be said by a kobe fanboy. P.S. Lebron has more clutch pts than Kobe: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...the-top-25-late-game-players-in-recent-memory You can worship Kobe all you want but numbers don't lie. 4 MVPs to 1. Finals to 1st round exit. Kobe has nothing on Lebron.
Kobe outscored Shaq all the times Shaq was resting on the bench while Kobe was playing on the court. The whole argument is dumb we all know who was the superstar on that team and who was the sidekick. Kobe fanboys just want to distort history and make it like Kobe was the man so they can pretend he earned 3 of his 5 rings.
How many times did Shaq hit a gamewinner? How many times did we see Shaq hit a clutch shot in the last 2 minutes? Very few, if any. Why? Because a) hack-a-shaq forced Phil to take him out & b) made Kobe the playmaker while Shaq sat & watched.So Shaq was a liability late in 4th quarters. Do I really need metrics for this? I don't remember Shaq bailing Kobe out by doing this in any game 6 or 7
LOL do we seriously have people arguing for Kobe over Shaq? Kobe apologists are seriously some of the most delusional fans in sports.
Well, we already know you're all over the place. You've already stated Pau Gasol was the best player on the 2nd championship run, so I can't take what you say too serious. Also: Wade/Bosh/Allen>>>>>>Pau/Odom/Bynum Western Conference>>>>Eastern Conference
You need to provide evidence or rationale if you're going to claim someone else is wrong and ridicule them for their lack of "Googling". Also, for the record, "again" isn't a qualifier. A qualifier is a word or phrase that either qualifies the reference as true/false or is used to attribute a certain quality to another. Try using dictionary.com or m-w.com. I mean it's square one, but it's the best place for you. "Again" is for emphasis. Again, not a qualifier. EDIT: for your edification http://writingcenter.unc.edu/tips-and-tools/qualifiers/
There's a case that Pau was the best player on the Lakers for both championship runs as both times he led the team in win shares. Kobe never led the Lakers in win shares any season that they won the championship actually. It was Shaq for the first 3 and Pau for the final 2. When you look at metrics like win shares and BPM, no team that Kobe was ever on won a championship when he was the best player on the team according to those metrics.
Win shares? Lmao. So you're saying right now that Pau Gasol (the brother of Marc) was the best player on the Lakers, not Kobe Bryant? I just want to get clarification before I die laughing
That's what the numbers say.....look I know it's hard for Kobe fanboys to accept, but yeah, there's a strong case for Pau as the best player on the Lakers during their final 2 championships (and from 2008-2012 overall). With Lebron, he was the top guy on every championship winning team, with Harden he's been the top guy ever since coming to the Rockets.....I mean, unless you are suggesting that the numbers are merely picking on your boy Kobe, perhaps you have to accept that he wasn't the top guy or at least that there is a strong case that he wasn't the top guy.
well pau was def the best player in game 7 of the 2010 finals when he "bailed kobe out" against the celtics but ultimately i agree with you that kobe was the best player of two championship teams. Also ron artest hit a clutch 3 kinda like ray allens clutch 3 vs the spurs. Hmmmmm mr bayless Saying that pau was as good as kobe on those teams is ALMOST as laughable as saying kobe was as good as shaq in the 3peat teams. Not quite as laughable though
Dude says kobes never been bailed out. When pau was clutch as *** in game 7 and artest hit the big late 3 but he wants to use ray allens game 6 3 against lebron? Skip bayless logic lol
Yes, or some type of support. Do you have any? It also sounds like you may want to look up the definition of the word "liability".
Artest's shot was bigger. His shot sealed the game. Allen's shot got them to OT, where LeBron hit the shot to seal the game. LeBron also hit the shot to seal G7. But Kobe is the clutch one though....
What numbers? Kobe was by FAR the best player on that team. Your hatred for the guy has clearly made you delusional lol. Either your really that foolish or just plain trolling. Regardless this topic is just too emotional for alot of you guys. Kobe did it better with less against better competition. Lebron is a very great player, but took a shortcut to his championships.
Well..if you wish- li·a·bil·i·ty a person or thing whose presence or behavior is likely to cause embarrassment or put one at a disadvantage. "he has become a political liability" Not sure what you're confused about. Shaq was a liability down the stretch because of his horrible free throws (which put the Lakers at a disadvantage). Maybe you should re-read the word to help you understand it
Shaq's positives outweighed his FT shooting. I'm still waiting for support for your claims. Do you have any? Simple question....
Pretty sure I spelled that out up above. Kobe was never tops in win shares, BPM, or VORP to just name a random 3 metrics in any season when the Lakers won the championship. Shaq was tops just about every season he was on the team (the lone exception being his very last season in LA when they got crushed in the finals) and Pau was tops from 2008-2012. Of course, that could be due to Kobe's inefficient chucking ways bringing those numbers down. Point is, the numbers are what they are and as such there is a statistical case for Pau over Kobe as the best player on those championship teams. Look them up if you don't believe me. I mean we're not even comparing Kobe to Lebron anymore, that's obviously unfair because Lebron is one of the all time great players. We're just trying to discuss if Kobe was ever the best player on his own team any of the seasons that they won.....and there's a strong case that he wasn't. By all means, if you have something that refutes this, share it with the class.
As in, like, he won the argument, for sure. Unanimously. But in reality, did he truly win though, ya feel me?
