Conceded. But imagine if that were us. If our team fell out of relevancy due to mismanagement, our management would be crucified. By it's own fandom and then the press would be unforgiving. All those five players are STILL in their prime years. That core together for another 4 years would be completing a dynasty on par with the 80's Lakers and Celtics and the 90's Bulls. I don't know that I am criticizing Presti (but really I am), but to really think on that core at that age and not have SH!^ to show for it after 7 years, save one Conference Finals appearance (after the 2012 Finals run), is a failing IMO. But it is just my opinion, so may not mean much.
But the problem is they DIDN'T have 7 years with that core. Harden was traded the very next season. You can certainly blame OKC's owner for being cheap over a total of 5million dollar over 5 years or you can blame Harden for wanting his own team?/not willing to accept anything less than the max, BUT can you really blame Presti. What could he have done to bridge the gap between those two? Perhaps one could blame him for signing Ibaka earlier, thus essentially choosing Ibaka over Harden. Also remember, harden was coming off a horrendous performances in the NBA finals vs the Heat. Furthermore Ibaka was a front court star while, Durant/Westbrook/Harden were all perimeter players and its questionable if Harden would've become who he is now playing behind Westbrook & Durant. Keep in mind, in Harden's last season in OKC, Westbrook MISSED more shots than Harden attempted.
Presti was allowed to tank.... he got top 3 picks. Morey never had the chance to draft in the top 3... We're still one player away and I am hoping some how we can land the last guy!
This was not the idea behind the post. I am talking a fans view of being at the top of the heap 2nd only to the Heatles that year with a promising outlook for your future based on your core depth and not even considering contracts and demands. If you are a fan and you are on that cloud nine on that Friday after the finals but you are looking back 7 years later, no matter how the team was decimated, the fact remains that you have nothing to show for it and as a fan that would be hard to swallow. If it were around here, we would probably riot (not really), but the GM would have CERTAINLY been thrown under the bus. Morey is thrown under a new bus every week while still trying to get out from under the one still driving over him from last week. The history of the Thunder is known by any and all. But I doubt you can find a more promising core of players on a team coming off a final. (Maybe you can -- who knows?)
KD was a big part of getting to the finals, but he doesn't get there without harden and westbrook. KD by himself took that team to the 2nd round. Please list the number of GMs to draft 3 mvps. Harden and Westbrook were definitely not no brainier picks.
WTH are you talking about? 1) Capela hasn't peaked 2) So why the heck would you compare "peak Ibaka" with a Capela who hasn't? 3) This past season by Capela is a better season than Ibaka ever had So your point makes zero sense.
I wouldn’t say that, not yet. If we get to the Finals and play for a title, I think that’s reasonable, because if we get that far, I think we’ll win. However, Russell has yet to play a game for us. As for the cost, I’ve called it Presti’s Revenge. We payed a high price for Westbrook. The title of @Clutch’s first column about the trade is, “The Rockets Sacrifice Their Future to Get Russell Westbrook.” I certainly hope we can look back and think that it was a deal well worth the cost, but that remains to be seen, in my opinion.
@steddinotayto just narrated why Morey is a boss GM. You guys forget what he had to work with: Broken Tmac, broken Yao, and an owner who refused to miss the playoffs while rebuilding. Look at what he transformed Houston into. Average clutchfans poster: “Oh yeah but Morey didn’t make the finals.” That isn’t “calling it like it is”. It’s ignoring context. Morey has been a stellar GM and Houston should be glad to have him.
Was re-reading a post by Clutch from 2012 and through my other browsing came across a piece at Grantland about the 80's Rockets team that never reached it's potential... https://grantland.com/features/an-oral-history-hakeem-olajuwon-ralph-sampson-1980s-houston-rockets/ One part of the article is prophetic in it's irony (am I saying that right?): Imagine indeed, except no championship and none of that exceptional talent. Who would have seen that?
All of them. Cuz we’ve traded them all away it’s hard to make contributions. But Dekker Harrell got us CP3 which is now Westbrook. Melton got rid of Anderson. DMo and Terence Jones made huge contributions before they both got injured.
IIRC ownership told Presti they can pay Harden the max and Harden basically admitted after he got traded he probably would have accepted less than the max to stay on the team, Presti is the one who immediately pulled the trigger and sent Harden away. So Presti isnt the one who couldnt bridge the gap, he created the gap between the two parties. Also his mistake isnt paying Ibaka, it's choosing WB as his centerpiece and enabling his behavior. WB had the higher trade value but was the least effective player among their trio, Presti sbould have traded him instead of Harden.
Can you enlighten me how it's a high price? *2 picks are top 4 protected and don't carry over the next year,meaning if they get top 4+ they dont have to give up a pick at all *Swaps wont happen unless Rox somehow got worse record than OKC The title of Clutch was extremely misleading IMO, 2 low first rounders isnt exactly sacrificing the future because low first rounders rarely pan out anyway.
I didn’t find @Clutch’s column misleading. I think he laid out his case very well, and if you listen to the podcast and add Bima’s opinions, it’s clear to me that we took on significant future risk. It could very well be a risk worth taking. My point is that it remains to be seen if that’s the case. There isn’t anyone here that doesn’t want a title to be the end result of the deal, unless they’re a fan of another team, and if we win a title with Russ playing alongside James, the risk will be justified. Clutch would be the first to acknowledge that. A 3rd title for the Rockets matters more than anything else. The pursuit of that title is why we made the huge trade for Chris Paul, and it damn near paid off. Heck, it came within a hamstring injury of paying off. Most of the fans here would agree with that. All the complaints about CP3’s contract would have been muted had we won that trophy his first year with Houston. Now we’re rolling the dice with Russell Westbrook joining James Harden as the stars of this team. Westbrook is significantly younger, but unlike CP3, depends heavily on his athleticism to impact a game at an elite level. Russ also plays a significantly different kind of game than Chris. Will the pluses he brings outweigh what we’ve lost by moving CP3? He also has to mesh with the other players on the team besides Harden. Those are questions that still need to be answered. He’s yet to play a game with the Rockets. You’ll have to forgive some of us if we want to see how he works out this season before making definitive statements about the fit. My fingers are crossed that he will be what we need to win that 3rd championship. Personally, I think we need more ammunition on the court than simply trading Russell for Chris. I would have said the same thing had we kept Chris Paul. I’m not sure we have an owner willing to pony up the dollars needed to improve the roster. So far, he hasn’t done it.
...taking on risk is different from sacrificing the future imo. Sacrificing the future is a lot like what the Clippers did with 5 picks, not two picks which the Rox dont even have to give up if they land top 4 and above. WB's contract is just 1 year longer than Cp3's so what is this "significant future risk" the Rox are taking? Paying Cp3's contract 1 more year doesnt seem like a significant huge risk to me, you were gonna pay his salary for the next 3 yrs anyway. If you look at it the Rox paid virtually nothing to exchange Cp3 to WB who is 4 yrs younger that is the beauty of this trade imo. The cost for the trade is very low when you consider what other stars got traded for.
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--...him-more-time-to-consider-offer-06561809.html Quotes from Woj. "The organization wasn't willing to deal with the punishing luxury-tax consequences and restricted roster flexibility that would come with paying a third player beyond Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook a maximum contract." "Thunder and Rockets executives give the same explanation for the timing of the trade four days prior to the Oct. 31 deadline for contract extensions: Houston needed a deal done on that Saturday, because Rockets officials felt that was the bare minimum to assure they could get their eventual five-year, $80 million deal with Harden into place. Houston had been pressing hard to complete the trade on that Friday, but Thunder GM Sam Presti waited until Saturday to present his final offer with a 60-minute deadline to accept." Quotes from Harden. "I was there with talented guys in Oklahoma City, some All-Star guys, and I would've been in the back seat there – which I was fine with – but I wouldn't have gotten the chance to show how talented I really am," Harden said. "It's a different opportunity for me here." Asked if additional time might have caused him to accept a deal several million dollars short of the $60 million maximum contract Harden had long sought, he responded: "Who knows? Another day, who knows what another day would've done?" Zach Lowe's story also confirms the problem with the Harden extension was one of cost... ie luxury taxes and that ownership wasn't willing to offer the max. https://grantland.com/features/a-look-oklahoma-city-trade-james-harden-houston-rockets/
^A couple years later, OKC got a refund check from the league for Durant. Just imagine if they held out and handed out ridiculous money like the Warriors did....Presto >> Murray Oh well.
