Sorry, don't have time to answer every point right now, but I just wanted to point out how... odd this statement is. You think that self-determination is un-American? Um... Really? Stop and think about this. Think real hard about this.
Of course it is unAmerican. What makes America great? Many things, but one of them is the fact that we have taken identities from all over the world, whether Chinese or Irish or Italian, and subsumed them all under a great American identity. I think of myself as Japanese. You may identify as white or black or whatever. But we all identify ourselves as American first and foremost ( aside from idiot hippies who want to pretend that they're "a citizen of the world" or some bull) Self-determination does not do this. It states that white and black should split up and form their own separate countries and cultures. There is the white nation. There is the black nation. And now you will be separate, "good fences make good neighbors" and so on.
ISIS / IS needs to be dealt within in all countries, and that includes Syria. I'm sorry, but it frankly terrifies me to hear and read about Britons and Europeans going to join IS and coming back radicalised. And I don't read the daily mail, I read the FT. There's no point in getting ISIS out of Iraq, into Syria, and stopping there, then it'll be like letting a parasite fester in another country where they can regroup and attack you again at the next moment. ISIS needs to be wiped out. No ifs, no buts. Does the West or the Iraqi government have the political capital to do so? Probably not until the situation gets even more out unstable and everybody is finally forced to react. Oh, and let's not forget, Putin is probably watching this all, hoping it distracts the West enough from Ukraine for him to continue waging a proxy war there.
"all wars are economic" It's not really the religion that is behind ISIS, it is the lack of economic opportunity and political power. Kings, foreign corporations and their lackeys, and foreign military power are perceived as controlling the economics and politics of the region in detriment to the people. Rebellion is about empowerment, terror is about gaining military advantage over a more powerful force. The religious aspect is just the rallying cry that lends the higher morality and self-approval to the group. People always tend to support the underdog who say they oppose oppression and tyranny. The kids from Minnesota (and the people in Ferguson) see themselves as separate and apart from American society because we do discriminate against them, overtly and subtly; because, we want to have and maintain economic superiority for ourselves. Republican/Democrat, Cowboys/Redskins, it's the same thing. It just gets mores serious with greater desperation. It's the way of the world for the human race; always has been. That's no solution to anything, it just makes a little sense out of what appears to be senseless. This one is interesting from a guy worth listening to: (treeman's boss?) The only way to defeat ISIS http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/21/o...to-defeat-isis/index.html?iid=article_sidebar
not Islamic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peasant_revolts It happens everywhere, all the time. If it were Islam alone, would the House of Saud be threatened by their own child? But it really doesn't matter how you classify it anyway. It's a power play and people have to pick a side. But glorious martydom in the cause of righteousness is a tough sell against the droning work-a-day existence in a Plutocratic Corpocracy. (You too can manage your own 7-11!) Interesting: Inside the teenage brain: New studies explain risky behavior http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...cedaily+(Latest+Science+News+--+ScienceDaily) Unlike children or adults, teenage boys show enhanced activity in the part of the brain that controls emotions when confronted with a threat. Magnetic resonance scanner readings in one study revealed that the level of activity in the limbic brain of adolescent males reacting to threat, even when they've been told not to respond to it, was strikingly different from that in adult men.
Your list starts 209 BC and ends in 1950. That doesn't bolster your argument at all. You might want to read this, and it is extremely incomplete: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism
Kojirou described himself as a fascist previously. Although I find single statements of his agreeable sometimes, I have a hard time taking someone who self-identifies as a fascist seriously in any political discussion.
It was a quick wikki post to illustrate the history of rebellion against authority but the point still stands. And again, it's only a semantic definition of the "group", and it doesn't really matter how we define the 'us' and 'them', it's usually about self determination and economic control.
They define themselves. They clearly state that the religious ideology is their one and only core motivation. You cannot just ignore that because it fits your narrative better that religion has nothing to do with it. It's like saying the Nazis weren't about race and nation, that that was all about economics. You are simply flat out wrong on this, and it is obvious.
Hitler used race and nation to rally Germany from economic depression after WW1. The people wanted the prosperity he promised. The defamation of the Jews was more economic than religious. They were grouped by religion because, as a group, they held sway over the banks and business of Europe. Empires are about stealing prosperity from other nations to enrich those at home. And for the third time, it really doesn't matter. ISIS exists and must be dealt with. You couldn't stop them with the promise of greater freedom and prosperity. Though Assad might better assemble a coalition to oppose them (as per the article above) with such promises.
This might all be true, but you started out saying "all wars are economic". Hitler didn't just "use" race and nation to advance an economic agenda, he was driven by his fanatical ideology involving race and nation. Just like the IS guys are driven by their fanatical religious ideology of Islam. There might also be an economic agenda, but the driving force is the fanatical ideology. And that is where you are wrong. And that is because your premise that it is all about economics is wrong. You are just proving it yourself. You cannot stop them with the promise of greater freedom and prosperity because that is not what drives them. What drives them is their fanatical religious extremism and their understanding of Islam. They could not care less about you promising them greater freedom, you said it yourself.
I in general disagree with your beliefs in the importance of economics, but this is important when understanding the IS recruits. IS offers meaning and purpose to a lot of disaffected youth in society today. It really isn't even an economic thing; at the end of the day, $100K lawyers are driven by the sense of purpose as much as $15K hamburger flippers, if not more so. Witness the example of Bin Laden.
yeah but I wrote the sentence backwards. It should have been: Glorious martydom in the cause of righteousness is an easy sell against the droning work-a-day existence in a Plutocratic Corpocracy.... to idealistic, testosterone fueled 20 somethings.
Dubious - if you believe that ISIS is all about the money and power - that it's all about economics - then please explain to me why women are being stoned to death for adultery, men are being beaten and threatened with beheading for shaving their beards, alcohol use in IS areas is being eradicated... etc. These guys are ALL about the religion. They are true believers - they believe in the Koran to its core and that it must be followed to the letter. Stop denying what these people are. You can not stick your head in the sand with these people. They are serious, and they want to rule the world. And they truly believe that Allah is going to give it to them. Everyone needs to understand the reality here, and people are doing everything in their power to avoid it. POTUS wants to believe that there's some good strategy lurking in the shadows, and people die while he dithers. Koijiru wants to believe that last year's map still has some validity. You want to believe that these people could essentially be bought off since it's all about thew money. You are all wrong. These people are freaking monsters, and they will not stop until either they are all dead, or the ummah stretches across the globe, with not a single infidel or apostate left to muddy its ranks. Sure, youi might think it's dumb, but they are serious - *absolutely serious* - and a lot of people will die as they pursue their bloody fantasy about creating the global caliphate. These people have to be killed. There is no reasoning with them. They are not remotely sane. They are evil. And ultimately there is only one way to deal with them. With lots of lead and high explosives. The only question is who delivers it where and when.
And Koijiru - you essentially called BS on the Daily Mail story about the child camps, insinuating that you did not believe the story. You seem to have the idea that these guys are not commiting atrocities on a scale we haven't seen in decades. Well, here: U.N. investigators fear for children in ISIS training camps http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/27/us-syria-crisis-warcrimes-panel-idUSKBN0GR0W920140827 UN accuses Islamic State group of war crimes http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/08/un-accuses-islamic-state-group-war-crimes-2014827153541710630.html This Video Shows The Terrifying Way The Islamic State Indoctrinates Children http://www.businessinsider.com/vice-isis-video-child-indoctrination-2014-8 How Islamic State training camps for children are swelling its ranks with junior jihadis http://www.capitalbay.com/news/554112-how-islamic-state-training-camps-for-children-are-swelling-its-ranks-with-junior-jihadis.html Iraq: ISIS Release Video Showing Children Brandishing Arms at 'Juniior Jihadis' Training Camp http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/iraq-isis-release-video-showing-children-brandishing-arms-juniior-jihadis-training-camp-1463300 This stuff is well documented. I could post a dozen more fairly easily. You obviously have not done too much research on this issue. I suggest looking into it.
1. I'll believe it when you post something better than the Daily Mail, which you just did. It's no different from the fact that if Ric Bucher breaks some big NBA news, I'm not really going to believe him until someone like Stein or Woj reports the same thing. Especially since as I've discussed, there have been incidents where IS has been falsely accused of atrocities and general evildoing. 2. THIS is your evidence that IS is "committing atrocities on a scale we haven't seen in decades?" They indoctrinate children at jihadist camps. They stone women. Yes. It's terrible. But none of this is unprecedented. None of this is even all that unusual in the Middle East. You're not an idiot, treeman. I expect you to know how the Palestinians, for example, teach their children that being a suicide bomber is glorious. You know what IS unusual? Using chemical weapons. Which the guy you're proposing we help, the guy who is oh so "rational", did.
You can have a long term presence in the middle east without it being an occupation.....unless you think the US is occupying Germany and South Korea.
a bit like the scare with Ebola, scary-looking things that look like they might tangibly affect us get a lot more play, while malaria lurks and quietly kills. People are quick to forget mass atrocities that don't look like they could spill over. Like cannibal Librarian warlords who ate children and dedicated them to the devil, or US-allied dictators who boil dissidents alive.
