I found it interesting that the Pope would address this topic, something that I've passively mentioned in other threads in the past. I think religion as a whole in the U.S. (not every church/mosque/synagogue/temple/etc, but as a general trend) is highly 'commercialized' and even 'watered down' and fit/marketed to the public in more attractive packaging. Somewhere along this traveled path, the 'authenticity' of the message was lost. To some degree, I agree with the Pope... Pope says U.S. society can undermine Catholic faith http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080417/us_nm/pope_usa_secularism_dc WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Pope Benedict tempered his praise for American religious tolerance on Wednesday with a warning that U.S. society can quietly undermine Catholicism by reducing all faiths to a lowest common denominator. Addressing the nation's Catholic bishops, the German-born pope said the U.S. Church could not drop its guard against relativism just because faith plays a larger part in public life in the United States than it does in more secularized Europe. A strong individualist streak in American culture leads some Catholics "to pick and choose," following Church doctrines they like and ignoring others, he said during a long speech on challenges facing Roman Catholicism in the United States. "It is not enough to count on this traditional religiosity and go about business as usual, even as its foundations are being slowly undermined," he warned the bishops gathered at the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington. The "American brand of secularism," he said, "can subtly reduce religious belief to a lowest common denominator." Countering growing secularization in Europe has been a main theme of Benedict's papacy. His comments on the United States have mostly been positive remarks on how it has separated church and state without driving religion from the public sphere. The speech to nine U.S. cardinals and 350 bishops, his main opportunity to speak to leaders of his Church in America, revealed a deeper level of concern Benedict has about a superficial religiosity sometimes called "civil religion." "Faith becomes a passive acceptance that certain things 'out there' are true, but without practical relevance for everyday life," he said. "The result is a growing separation of faith from life, living 'as if God did not exist."' "We have seen this emerge in an acute way in the scandal given by Catholics who promote an alleged right to abortion." "PREACHING LOST ITS SALT?" Another sign is the continued drift of Catholics away from the Church, he said. According to a recent study by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, about 24 percent of Americans are Catholics but a further 10 percent are ex-Catholics. "Do people today find it difficult to encounter God in our churches?" Benedict asked. "Has our preaching lost its salt?" The pope said part of the problem was that American Catholics had left the "ghetto" of Catholic culture that reinforced religious practice among the immigrant communities that long made up the bulk of the faithful. Those communities have assimilated in recent decades into the pluralist mainstream of this mostly Protestant society, where other faiths and fads compete for people's attention. "The Church in America," Benedict said, "is faced with the challenge of recapturing the Catholic vision of reality and presenting it, in an engaging and imaginative way, to a society which markets any number of recipes for human fulfillment." A study issued just before Benedict's visit showed many U.S. Catholics -- especially younger ones -- had only a shallow understanding of their faith. While the Church teaches that the Eucharist is clearly the most important of its sacraments, only 25 percent of those polled thought so, according to the study by the Center for Applied Research into the Apostolate at Georgetown University. Some 39 percent chose baptism as the most important sacrament and 26 percent picked marriage.
He's said this before except that news groups parsed it only into an attack on atheism. At the time, I felt that he was obliquely referring to American Evangelical Christians, but this recent message seems to be directed upon American/Western Catholics who might not have read any of his encyclicals. As a conservative choice for pope, Pope Benedict has been very measured and thoughtful. I don't agree with everything, but I feel a degree of respect in his thoughts. That Islamic reference controversy appeared more of a misunderstanding than a deliberate and forceful confrontation. Pope Criticizes Atheism in Encyclical http://www.sfisonline.com/cgi-bin/a...ational/i030552S42.DTL&hw=cynic&sc=242&sn=008 By VICTOR L. SIMPSON, Associated Press Writer (11-30) 11:35 PST VATICAN CITY, (AP) -- Pope Benedict XVI strongly criticized atheism in a major document released Friday, saying it had led to some of the "greatest forms of cruelty and violations of justice" ever known. In his second encyclical, Benedict also critically questioned modern Christianity, saying its focus on individual salvation had ignored Jesus' message that true Christian hope involves salvation for all. The document, titled "Saved by Hope," is a deeply theological exploration of Christian hope: that in the suffering and misery of daily life, Christianity provides the faithful with a "journey of hope" to the Kingdom of God. "We must do all we can to overcome suffering, but to banish it from the world is not in our power," Benedict wrote. "Only God is able to do this." An encyclical is the most important papal document, addressed to all members of the 1 billion-member Roman Catholic Church. In the 76-page document, Benedict elaborated on how the Christian understanding of hope had changed in the modern age, when man sought to relieve the suffering and injustice in the world. Benedict points to two historical upheavals: the French Revolution and the proletarian revolution instigated by Karl Marx. Benedict sharply criticizes Marx and the 19th and 20th century atheism spawned by his revolution, although he acknowledges that both were responding to the deep injustices of the time. "A world marked by so much injustice, innocent suffering and cynicism of power cannot be the work of a good God," he wrote. But he said the idea that mankind can do what God cannot by creating a new salvation on Earth was "both presumptuous and intrinsically false." "It is no accident that this idea has led to the greatest forms of cruelty and violations of justice," he wrote. "A world which has to create its own justice is a world without hope." He specifically cited Vladimir Lenin, the founder of the Soviet Union, and the "intermediate phase" of dictatorship that Marx saw as necessary in the revolution. "This 'intermediate phase' we know all too well, and we also know how it then developed, not ushering in a perfect world, but leaving behind a trail of appalling destruction," Benedict wrote. "The pope's concern is that you have secularizing forces that are trying to eliminate religion from public and private life," said Monsignor Robert Wister, professor of church history at Seton Hall University in the United States. "In most countries, political Marxism is dead (but) philosophical Marxism is very much alive and it fuels the secularizing philosophy often seen in Europe and North America," Wister said. At the same time, Benedict also looks critically at the way modern Christianity had responded to the times, saying such a "self-critique" was also necessary. "We must acknowledge that modern Christianity, faced with the successes of science in progressively structuring the world, has to a large extent restricted its attention to the individual and his salvation," he wrote. "In doing so, it has limited the horizon of its hope and has failed to recognize sufficiently the greatness of its task." The Christian concept of hope and salvation, he says, was not always so individual-centric. Quoting scripture and theologians, Benedict says salvation had in the earlier church been considered "communal" — illustrating his point by using the case of monks in the Middle Ages who cloistered themselves in prayer not just for their own salvation but for that of others. "How could the idea have developed that Jesus' message is narrowly individualistic and aimed only at each person singly? How did we arrive at this interpretation of the 'salvation of the soul' as a flight from responsibility for the whole, and how did we come to conceive the Christian project as a selfish search for salvation which rejects the idea of serving others?" he asked. While seeking to provide answers, he also says there are ways for the faithful to learn and practice true Christian hope: in prayer, in suffering, in taking action and in looking at the Last Judgment as a symbol of hope. Rev. Robert Gahl, professor of ethics at Rome's Santa Croce University, said the pope's message was "tremendously relevant" for today's materialistic societies "where people put hope in science and medical cures." "Saved by Hope," which Benedict largely penned this past summer while on vacation, follows his first encyclical, "God is Love," released last year. With these two encyclicals, which are the most authoritative documents a pope can issue, Benedict has explored two of the three Christian theological virtues: faith, hope and love. "We all ask ourselves if there will be a third encyclical on faith," said the Rev. Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman. "It cannot be excluded, but it's not planned."
“How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest part of your income, but you ignore the important things of the law- justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but you should not leave undone the most important things. Blind Guides! You strain your water so you won’t accidentally swallow a gnat; then you swallow a camel.” Matthew 23:23-24
I think the Pope's comments also bring up a somewhat related issue to the forefront: has the Catholic Church given up on the West? Europe is pretty much 'anti-religion' (not non-religious, but legitimately anti-religion), Canadians are a bit more 'passive' but they're also largely non-religious (they do tend to be a lot more tolerant than Europeans, however), and the U.S. is getting more and more non-religious as well...even those who proclaim to be "Christians" (the majority of Americans do) aren't all that caught up in religious 'doctrines' or practice. Pretty much the last 'bastion' of hope where the Church still has a stronghold is Latin America, and may be the Philippines. But their numbers are shrinking elsewhere. Finally, is it true that the very essence of American culture is contrary to religious values? (e.g. strong individualism is somewhat contrary to religious preaching about 'community values' and the collective good, et al).
the goal of any organization becomes to remain in existance. organizations are like living things, their first priority is to stay alive.
I understand that, but it's not like the Catholic Church will disappear overnight. There are still over 800 million Catholics in the world. They will always be 'in business', they may just need to revise their 'business plan' and be a bit more spendthrift.
If by Church you mean solely the Catholic Church, I think you may be right. If by Church you mean the Church, generally, I know you're wrong. Christianity is spreading like wildfire in Africa, Asia and Latin America. It doesn't look like the country club faith of the West, to be sure. There is a strong focus on social justice and they're certainly more charismatic than I'm used to. But the message is solidly Christianity.
I'm glad that we agree to disagree with the Pope. Can you imagine if we had an "ideal" society like the one His Holiness envisioned?
I'm in lockstep agreement with the Pope on this one, from the article posted above: "We must acknowledge that modern Christianity, faced with the successes of science in progressively structuring the world, has to a large extent restricted its attention to the individual and his salvation," he wrote. "In doing so, it has limited the horizon of its hope and has failed to recognize sufficiently the greatness of its task." The Christian concept of hope and salvation, he says, was not always so individual-centric. Quoting scripture and theologians, Benedict says salvation had in the earlier church been considered "communal" — illustrating his point by using the case of monks in the Middle Ages who cloistered themselves in prayer not just for their own salvation but for that of others. "How could the idea have developed that Jesus' message is narrowly individualistic and aimed only at each person singly? How did we arrive at this interpretation of the 'salvation of the soul' as a flight from responsibility for the whole, and how did we come to conceive the Christian project as a selfish search for salvation which rejects the idea of serving others?" he asked.
Yeah, that's what I was referring to. One of the biggest reasons for the declining RCC influence is the fact that a lot of Catholics are simply leaving The Church behind and converting to Protestantism. So they're not necessarily leaving the Christian faith behind for good, just 'jumping ship' to something else within Christianity.
That's basically the point I was making. Most religious faiths place emphasis on 'communal' well-being, and not an individualistic view of faith as something that serves 'me' and me only. However, in order to 'reconcile' the strong American cultural emphasis on individualism with religion, some religious leaders may have felt compelled to 'alter the message' a bit to appeal to the masses.
I'm extremely upset with the pope at this moment! Our catholic community builds a cathedral to serve the people, includes saint Juan diego, yet ratzinger would rather spend his time in washington ? Grrr! Houston really gets no respect! Because the catholic church in latin America embraces liberation theology, It will always be the religion of choice. It sucks that not even the vatican supports liberation theology. Dammit college of cardinals, just give hummes or maradiaga a chance !!
