Interesting... There are other questions in the poll by Zogby, so click on the link if you want to read everything. The most notable one is this question about "impeachment" of President Bush, as well as his low approval rating even in "Red" states. I think 42% is a remarkably high support for something as radical as impeaching a sitting President, although it is a "conditional" support in case he misled the country about Iraq, which coincidentally most Americans polled believe he in fact did. (see: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050628/ts_afp/usiraqbushpoll_050628061432 ) http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1007 Impeachment Question Shows Bitterness of Divide In a sign of the continuing partisan division of the nation, more than two-in-five (42%) voters say that, if it is found that President Bush did not tell the truth about his reasons for going to war with Iraq, Congress should hold him accountable through impeachment. While half (50%) of respondents do not hold this view, supporters of impeachment outweigh opponents in some parts of the country. Among those living in the Western states, a 52% majority favors Congress using the impeachment mechanism while just 41% are opposed; in Eastern states, 49% are in favor and 45% opposed. In the South, meanwhile, impeachment is opposed by three-in-five voters (60%) and supported by just one-in-three (34%); in the Central/Great Lakes region, 52% are opposed and 38% in favor. Impeachment is overwhelmingly rejected in the Red States—just 36% say they agree Congress should use it if the President is found to have lied on Iraq, while 55% reject this view; in the “Blue States” that voted for Massachusetts Democrat John Kerry in 2004, meanwhile, a plurality of 48% favors such proceedings while 45% are opposed. A large majority of Democrats (59%) say they agree that the President should be impeached if he lied about Iraq, while just three-in-ten (30%) disagree. Among President Bush’s fellow Republicans, a full one-in-four (25%) indicate they would favor impeaching the President under these circumstances, while seven-in-ten (70%) do not. Independents are more closely divided, with 43% favoring impeachment and 49% opposed.
Am I missing something here - or was this a thread that was *supposed* to have a poll to it. Or was it a ZRB thread - you know "Poll Poll Poll Poll".
No, I meant the link was about a poll conducted by Zogby, not a poll of the BBS. Sorry for the confusion
42% is rather high, but when you look at 2004 election results, Kerry obtained 48% of the popular vote, while Bush obtained 51%, and Nader 1%. 2004 election results Still 42% is high, but is it really that high or is it just a reflection of how the other half of population still feels about Bush? Believe me I understand that an impeachment is to charge an individual with a crime or misdemeanor; specifically : to charge (a public official) before a competent tribunal with misconduct in office. I do understand that there are some concerns with Bush's actions and motives while in office, and believe me I did not vote for the man. However, could the argument be made that those that want Bush impeached could just be those that simply did not want him in office in the first place?
I think it's more telling the other way - that 58% of people don't want him impeached. Keep in mind, the question was "if it's shown that Bush lied/misled us into war" not just "what do you want now?". I would expect, regardless of party, if you asked the generic question "should a President who lies to a country to go to war be impeached?" you'd get a higher than 42% yes rate.
Not too sure what impeaching Bush would even accomplish for the Democrats... Cheney would just take the muppet sock off his hand and start giving all the orders in first person then. And probably nothing would change as far as Iwreck goes.....it's not like Democrats have been voting against the hundreds of billions of dollars worth of funding for our endeavor over there anyways. Nah, you take Bush out and it will still be (big) business as usual dominating Capitol Hill.
I believe there will be far more damage inflicted upon the hopes of the Neocon agenda by letting Bush finish out his term than by trying to get rid of him. A lot of Republicans are running for cover to avoid being judged by the company they keep. My hopes are that a viable third party results from the schism the Bushies are inflicting. I don't like the Democrats either, but don't think they'll do as much damage as the Neocons have done.
I don't think impeaching Bush would help out one side or the other, but it might be justice. As far as voting against spending goes, some Dems have been. They have also been voting to repeal tax cuts for the wealthy to pay for things. In addition they have voted for spending bills that attach oversight and accountability to it in regards to Iraq. All of that is why John Kerry voted for the 87 billion before voting against it. The vote he made for the 87 billion would have been paid for, instead of adding to the debt, and it could have prevented the billions that ended up being wasted and nobody knows where it has gone.
Again you're quick to discount the benefits to the economy that the tax cuts have provided. Increased GDP means increased tax revenues. You're really trying to oversimplify things by simply saying that if we repealed the "tax cuts for the wealthy" (gawd your demagoguery is shining through strong here...) then we could have paid for Iraq. Very simple-minded view.
The GDP increase has not been shown to be due to the tax cuts, and in the thread you started about it, foreign investment was shown to account for a substantial part of it. It isn't oversimplified, it is just finding a way to pay for what is spent. But maybe you are correct. Maybe we haven't had the largest deficits in our nation's history since the tax cuts went into effect.
bigtexx You can't equate bush's tax cuts to an economic recovery. How long ago were the tax cuts? 5yrs? The economy has not recovered, although I do believe that it's on the right path it has not happened yet. The economy goes up and down naturally, I rarely give presidents blame or give them credit for the economy. If anything, I believe that had bush not invaded Iraq the economy would be in better shape because oil prices would be less and there would be less uncertainty in the market.
Another way to look at the situation that you are depicting is this: How strong must our economy be when it can shrug off $60 oil prices? Look at the facts: GDP growth has been strong, taxes are lower, interest rates remain low, home ownership is at records levels, as are home values (tremendous wealth effect related to that), investors are returning to the stock market, the dollar has rebounded against foreign currencies, and jobs are being added. Economic recovery? Of course we are in an economic recovery. The only ones who don't want to believe it are those who have blind hatred for the Administration. Liberals.
Gloating like a liquored up Frenchmen over the impeachment of an American leader on the 4th of July ~ you sir have fired a roman candle into the heart of freedom. However, like a Chinese firecracker illegally smuggled into Harris County - you - bigtexxx are a dud. I’m proud to be an American where at least I know I’m free. And I won’t forget the men who died, who gave that right to me. And I’d gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today. ‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land God bless the U.S.A.
While I detest GWB, I do not think there is sufficient information to actually do anything after an impeachment.
trader, the economy has not recovered. it's on a good path i admit, but as anyone who follows this knows, don't count on anything until it happens. the market has a mind of it's own. i do believe that better times, market wise, are on the way for the 2nd half of this year but with gas near $60 (which by the way that keeps the market down) and the market at 10,300 i wouldn't go screaming that bush has saved us all. we are in a good place for growth to happen but to claim that bush has done anything that has actually helped is suspect at best. and by the way if Iraq keeps going poorly and the debt keeps increasing out of control, it will hinder any growth that we could gain from these positive signs.
Your argument equates the equity market with the overall economy then mistakes the price of gas for the price of oil and then you are telling The_Conquistador about the economy's health? Surely you jest! Ho ho ho! I presented the facts regarding the current state of the economy. Can you refute them? If not, go ahead and agree with me that we are in an economic recovery. Thx
Impeach for what? Politics as usual? A consortium of the most wealthy in the world finance the U.S. government through the Central Bank (Federal Reserve)IMHO. They don't really care who is in office as long as it is either a Republican or a Democrat, the two parties they control. So what is the fuss about? If you want to see power, follow the money trail and forget about the surface bickering in the media between the two parties. The differences are obvious between Rep. and Dem., it is the similarities that are so often overlooked. Big Central Govt. Debt Globalism Reps. and Dems. favor big government, a social dictatorship and class systems (globalism). These agendas are the undercurrent for policy- they are the reality of what we have become. The left complains about social inequity (class systems) , the right complains about social welfare (social dictatorship) and both parties want more power (big central government)- the reality is we have more and more social inequity, social welfare and government power all at the same time and it is happening on purpose. The good 'ole Rep. and Dem. are moving us all in the same direction. If it happens it happens on purpose. The Super-Wealthy do not leave things to chance. Don't look at what politicians say, look at what they do. And note carefully the money trails. Is it an accident we are in Iraq? Why didn't the Democrats fight against the war with blood, sweat and tears and conviction when it first went before the public in Congress? There was enough Dems. to create a protest heard round the world. (Now we are hearing the strongest rhetoric against the war, like we now realize it was a mistake.) We the sheep follow two parties down the same path. We started out in unity (remember the political climate after 9-11. (makes for great PR to be patriotic) Impeach? Republicans and Democrats have control, political choice in America just masks the power elite. This is our Matrix. Wealthy Power Elite Democrats make the social idealists feel like they are fighting for equality and justice; ideals and a tolerant community-(yet we are far from this goal) Wealthy Power Elite Republicans make the conservative individual feel like they are fighting for freedom and responsibility; traditional values. (we are even farther from this goal) If we argue and fight each other long enough we may live to see the day that America is fully incorporated into the global community (dictatorship). And about 50% of the people will like it and about 50% won't. All in favor- (relax we are right on course)
