In the past 20 years The finals have been won 16 times by just 4 teams, GSW, Spurs, Lakers and Miami.... The other four have been The Pistons, Mavs, Celtics and Cavs..... There are 30 teams competing every year to even get to the finals, and in the past 20 years there have only been 8 championship teams and 4 outside of those super teams to win it all. Does that mean the The owners of those other 22 teams are bad? Or that there are only 8 good owners in the league? You are judging Tilman for picking the team up towards the tail end of an era when The Rockets were depleted and Morey had no one else to trade, he pretty much traded everything away... And hey he almost did it, almost did it. But the price for that almost was so damn high that the team literally imploded. Maybe it was a combo of everything, new owner, bad trades, bad moves in free agency (Ariza), heart breaking defeat at the hands of GSW, injuries, stubborn coaches.... Houston was dealing with so many things as a team but to blame Tilman for everything that happened is flat out unfair. You are really going to blame Tilman for Harden wanting to join a super team? You are reaching and you know it... As I have said before, Tilman has not been perfect. Has not been great, but he has only had the team for a few years... Can we at least get an era? Can we atleast wait and see what he does with his first unique chance at making The Rockets great again in the draft. Can we see if hiring Stone was a good move? Can we see how treats our next franchise player? What he puts around them. I hated Tilman like everyone else at first, then I realized it was stupid and I was blaming the wrong person.
I was the total opposite of you, I didn't hate tilman at first. In fact I was very happy when he became the owner from Les. This guys a local, apparently i thought among the highest net worths in the nba and he talked a good game. We were in our window and it goes to show even with phoenix getting there with an aging chris paul(which tilman leaked was the worst contract hes seen). I mean go and find other owners who take the mike like he does after a year where we sent first round picks to get un the tax, and as I mentioned getting under the tax is not something for our future buiilidng, it only helps the owner. ASs mentioned, I am fine getting rid of ariza, but we just wouldn't spend on a viable alternative. to the point where we only used the minimum contracts to get carmelo, ennis, and MCW. we got house from the dleague, we cut house because we wanted to hold onto carmelo's minimum so we can trade to get under the tax, we traded a first with brandon knight to save money, we also traded ennis for a top 55 protected pick while hes playing. This is a players league, they generate the revenue. An owner at most can offer finances when the window is there, make bank other years, otherwise they are replaceable. These moves hurt our city, they hurt our future prospects nad rockets reputation because news flash, lebron, butler, name any star you respect...they would've all left houston. Mikwalukee paid max for middleton, holidy, big contract to lopez, donte, and even gave up a first for pj tucker someone our fans always cited as washed, 0 point guy well he just 0 pointed played 36 minutes messed around and got a ring. it aint as clear cut as we make it to be: Paul seems to be well aware of that fact, and explained as much to Davis (again, emphasis mine): For a star player like Davis to commit to a franchise, “you either need your team”—a winning mix of players—“in place, or you need flexibility, assets, money, and the ability to make decisions. And, more important, the willingness to pay the tax”—the so-called luxury tax, for exceeding the league’s salary cap, which the Pelicans at that time refused to pay. “This ain’t ‘Moneyball,’ ” Paul said. He was referring to the book by Michael Lewis, in which Billy Beane, the nimble general manager of the Oakland A’s, builds a winning baseball team on the cheap by using advanced statistical methods. But, as Paul knows, nothing quite trumps money. Players have short careers, and very few will remain sentimental about the charms of a small-market existence, particularly if their team is a loser. As mentioned, its an odd hill to die on to cry anyone brings up tilman. I find it to be obective, this aint north korea or some snowflake safe zone where people think its too negatve to be objective lol or to be objective and say he lives rent free in your head is like saying harden lives rent free in your head when maybe you just called him on some ****? So far I'm loving the guys stone pulled out of no where and we have some exciting young pieces, I have no problem saying that and also saying the moves that led to our burn down where people like myself who hve gone to games now saw a wasted season and stll give money to the rockets was moves that only helped the owner and then he went and continues to lievto us, the whole morey went all in , or that getting under the tax was a fluke(we traded picks to do it)(https://clutchpoints.com/rockets-ne...houston-getting-under-luxury-tax-was-a-fluke/ , or lying about MDA's contract publicly,(https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...amn-turmoil-unsettling-vibe-surrounds-rockets) you can only find a handful of owners who try to take the mike and continue to sell snake oil to whichever people will still buy his ****, like i said i have a hard time understanding apparent tilman only fans even defending the guy when hes lied with reciepts to our fabase, itst bottom of the barrel in terms of how he operates and his culture. and I still believe he can change, phew that wasn't hard was t? i m fine calling people on their ****, heck sarver himself evolved, so why not tilmman and he basically punted on a rebuild so we have to wait and now we can just enjoy and not worry about it. and that was the one thing that Morey never really had. According to the cap numbers at Spotrac, which go back to the 2010-11 season, the Rockets barely went over the luxury tax (just $3.65 million over) in their one season (2015-16) as a taxpayer. The Warriors spent $49.63 million in penalties over the last five seasons, while even the small-market Thunder spent $33.73 million. There was no excuse for Houston to not open up the checkbook. This is a franchise located in the fourth-biggest metro area in the U.S. that has had a superstar in the prime of his career. Alexander sat on his hands while Houston’s rivals went all in, counting on Morey’s ability to use advanced statistics to turn water into wine. This refusal to spend money became farcical once Alexander sold the team to Tilman Fertitta in 2017. Fertitta spent so much money ($2.2 billion) to purchase the Rockets that he may not have had the liquidity to go into the red to build a title contender. Houston was a laughingstock around the league for the amount of juggling it had to do to stay under the tax. The best example came at the trade deadline last season, when Morey used a faffirst-round pick to shed the salaries of Brandon Knight and Marquese Chriss. There was no basketball reason for the move. It was just done to cut costs. It’s not that Knight and Chriss would have helped the Rockets. But there were certainly a lot of better things that Morey could have used that pick for. Houston also spent that season in a bizarre staring contest with Danuel House Jr. House is the kind of diamond in the rough that Morey routinely uncovered in Houston, an undrafted free agent on a two-way contract who would become a starting-caliber wing. The problem was that players on those deals can spend only 45 days with the NBA team during the season before their contracts have to be converted. Money in Houston was so tight that Morey had to send House back to the G League when he wouldn’t sign a below-market long-term deal. He replaced House with two players he signed off the street (Gerald Green and Kenneth Faried) before bringing him back right before the playoffs. It’s not like House was asking for the world. He signed a three-year, $11 million contract in the offseason. But even that was more than Morey could offer at the time. Houston’s limited financial flexibility became an even bigger issue last season after the trade for Westbrook. With the team’s two best players costing a combined $76.7 million, it became almost impossible for Morey to fill out the roster while staying under the luxury tax. Morey and head coach Mike D’Antoni had to conjure up production from players other teams didn’t want. Jeff Green went from being cut by the Jazz to being a crucial piece of the Rockets’ small-ball attack in the playoffs. It was the same story with Austin Rivers, who had been on three teams in five seasons before landing in Houston, and Ben McLemore, who had one foot out of the NBA before the Rockets turned him into a 3-point sniper. All were more valuable in Houston than anywhere else in the league because Morey identified what they could do well and put them in roles that didn’t ask them to do much else.
Cyou have some points of 'harden only fans' or whatever it is, yet all your ponts just justify a guy who has lied to us, hurt our statue in the nba, nad has been the only benefactor for his moves and also hurt our future as a destination, if he does the same type of moves as he did then even if Jalen Green or whoever becomes a superstar, he'll leave in year 7. You thik thats a harden only thing, or an anthoyn davis thing? go see Kobe demanding his trade, go see MJ n the 80s like harden dominating individually and coming up short each year realizing you need to win as a team with talent, and depth, dont forget paxon and kerr, role players not worth their contract(same argumetns you make abotu ariza) are the ones who made game winners for rings, as did fisher, kenny smith, so onnotn headlning vets contribute to wins. Go see Lebron leaving for the superteam, go see giannis considering leaving if bucsk don't show htey are committed to winning and they went and gave contracts you would complain about since apparnetly a tlman only fan who wants to give him money and you're a rockets fan as a business and profit entity for fertitas? heey everyones in it for a dfferent reason i guess. HIs moves, his mentality, his lies ended up costing houston good. I have no problem callng t out, I've been around for a few owners, im happy to critisize any of em, any player, and coach, and that said tilman has been terrible but made it worst on himself but lyng so blantantly. i don't know ho you guys enjoy that abusive relationship,' tell me more lies to my face'. I'm texan, i don't like these suits bullshiting to my face, maybe you guys are from somewhere else where it demands unfethered loyalty and not questioning authority, its an odd thing for me to see in this state. So he doesn hel his cause, but bootlicking also don't make us btter. but yes, he most likely ant going anywhere, so ihope he learns, that takes pressure. Even as @tinman said apparently @Clutch and CF were big in saving our team with pressure and we can continue tht pressure to make sure these owners do whatst best for the rockets and not themselves.
Although I disagree with you, I appreciate your time and effort into writing these posts. I and I'm sure many others would like shorter posts thou. Its really difficult to address and read everything you have to say when its this lengthy. However, I don't know why you feel Tilman dismantled The Rockets. Chris Paul was absolutely not looking good his last year. Tilman was not even wrong when he said it was the worst contract at the time. So was paying Ariza, he was wrong on Paul and right on Ariza... But we can't take what we know now and hold it against someone for perfectly valid points in the past. I know we love to dangle what ifs all the time, what if Paul was still here, what if Ariza stayed, what if The Rockets ran it back one more year.... All of these mean nothing, absolutely nothing.... If all the what ifs were true Paul perhaps would be getting bounced alongside Harden in The Finals this year, maybe not maybe The Lakers beat Houston and they are in the finals vs Giannis instead. Endless possibilities we will never know the outcome of, what we do know is that The Rockets window shut closed the moment GSW beat them when they were up 3-2... That team was crushed, mentally they were done. Everyone including Morey had nowhere to go... I'm from Houston Texas, don't think anyone likes being lied to but even then the Tilman lies is a huge reach.... Athletes, coaches, GM's, owners lie all the time. Things change from one day to another quickly. Don't take it personal, everyone on espn has lied to you.... So did Morey, and HP3 lies to you too...
thats fair criticism. when I do them, I'd rather try to stick more to the facts and quotes so I want to actually quote the articles and links, thats the odd thing abotu this thats more unique there are more reciepts of tilman tellng rockets fans/public something and blantantly lying numerous times. Those quotes really are the guiding force rather than I just came here to "hate tilman". Last thing I want to talk about when I think of my rockets who I've watched back since Thomas, before Alexander was here, back when the dream was a pup. And no doubt, before I Was on this board when Les let our franchise cornerstone end his career elsewhere, I knew Alexander was a jackass...you don't do it. Like I've said its not some binary team les vs tlman. I'm happy to call em all out, and unfortunately tilman gave me a load of ammo. I'd love for the day when we do it right and I can just enjoy my team, but at the bottom of the rankings and most of our moves were financial and not to call out the one guy who benefits from it? cmon man. We can't be sheep for these dudes, they are profiting off a publicly funded toyota center and mind you I still go to many games, buy a lot of merhcandise, as mentioned I have history and loyalty with this team, not with an owner, not with one player, or coach and its just as simple as that. I agree Paul was not looking good last year, but thats the ebb and flow of the nba. Thats why spurs would run it back even after they choked. Thats why after people were laughing at gianni's free throw choke and how easy it was to stop him taht they felt he couldnt win...low and behold, the team stuck with him went all in big on cash and now they got a ring with him hitting an unliklely 17-19, even the suns being in the finals shows that you just take a swing when you have the greats, there are no guarantees. Heck can you imagine the blazers board calling lillard a culture killer for wanting more help after dominating individaully and falling short? What about bucks fans saying man I hope marc larsy saves money rather than us spend the max on Holiday and Middleton, thats what I mean thats whay its a billionaire showcase peace, if tilman can't handle it first he shouldn't talk that game and then he needs to get out of the kitchen bc houston suffers. The dude has his billions, give props to the guy, it aint easy to hustle I don't care if its from depth or whatever, he made it happen. Hes done the exact opposite of what hes said with the rockets Once again its not about paying ariza, its about keeping his contract in play. This is nba economics, we don't resign him, we lose the value of 15 million that we can trade or replace and once again with the suns who did pay him they traded him months later for kelly oubre. We didn't use his bird rights so we lost all ability to get better, so we just used minimums, and THEN we traded those minimims, first picks, etc to get under the tax...all while he lied that he wasnt trying to get under teh tax and thats a move that gives morey no flexiblity, doesnt help our city or team, it makes the team worse, but saves one guy money....so literally thats what I'm saying, you guys are rooting for one guys money making while the team suffers in reputation and results. Thats what I imagined, can you imagine warriors fans damn we took a shot in oubre, its not wroth Lacob's Money!? save him money!? or larsy o the bucks? Like how is that tilman only fans are sittting here watching not only him make the team bad, but ruining our reputation, and then worst of all lying to fans faces to add insult to injury and then coming on here to defend the guy? its more weird than tilman or morey only fans imo. It ain't even big money. You think ariza wasn't worth it, even though chris paul severly disagrees, heck even bucks taking on tucker shows theres more to number, but then ok who do we replcae him with. You are down with Getting James Ennis, him playing in our short rotation and trading him mid season for a top 55 protected pick and no replacement? You are down with Getting Daniel house, him doing wlel from the gleageu, then cutting him for 2 months? HArden coming back to the locker room while playing heavy minutes and games in an age where stars 'load manage', and then he comes back to see two empty lockers meanwhile even small market cavs are gonig in the tax for lebron overpaying JR, Love, Tristan. Toronto paying Marc gasol 50 million at 34....On top of all that, the owner takes the mike after he cheaped on the team and says he would set a new culture(how many owners do this stuff, go look)if you want good deals and a budget team, the nba is not the business for you. IF you are just rooting for landry's stocks then this makes sense, but if you're a rockets fans...its beyond me you agree with this junk bc those moves made us the laughing stock...literally : "This refusal to spend money became farcical once Alexander sold the team to Tilman Fertitta in 2017. Fertitta spent so much money ($2.2 billion) to purchase the Rockets that he may not have had the liquidity to go into the red to build a title contender. Houston was a laughingstock around the league for the amount of juggling it had to do to stay under the tax. The best example came at the trade deadline last season, when Morey used a future first-round pick to shed the salaries of Brandon Knight and Marquese Chriss. There was no basketball reason for the move. It was just done to cut costs. It’s not that Knight and Chriss would have helped the Rockets. But there were certainly a lot of better things that Morey could have used that pick for." You're from Houston texas, born and raised? Thats waht I was trying to figure out some of thes etilman only fans I really assumed must've come from the China era. I may be older than you guys and a generational texan, but its embedded not to trust the bullshit from authorities, to be indepenent minded, and not take **** . Tilman has insulted all that. I'll give you receiepts: https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/20...tta-tells-final-hours-of-paul-westbrook-deal/ " TM: What would you like to see in it? TF: I don’t know. I really haven’t counted on the government. I’m not one of the largest companies in America and I’m not one of the smallest. When it’s all over with, you can write an article [saying] that I survived and I didn’t get any help from the government. https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/tilman-fertitta-coronavirus-interview/ https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...amn-turmoil-unsettling-vibe-surrounds-rockets https://clutchpoints.com/rockets-ne...houston-getting-under-luxury-tax-was-a-fluke/
@Salvy To this very day he still lies abotu morey going all in for harden and unless harden wanted his best friend ariza gone, his personal trainer off the staff, teh associate head coach that was most successful on their defense, and to only use minimims, ignore our mle, trade picks for savings...basically unless hardens main goal was to save money which was 90 percent of our moves, then thats just another narrative tilman feeds to sheep who won't question even after he lies My disappointment lies from being wrong, frankly. When Tilman came, as mentioned I was excited. this dude should've been the local legend who at least paid up for 1-2 years, then he can save and no one says anyhting. You don't take a team thats one agame from the finals, with injuries, has all the bird rights, several picks, mle, tpe, and ignore all of that and water it down. Imagine if bucks did that after last year, i mean to give up on anin jury year, then to replace a starter and more so veteran leadership with minimums who we also cut or traded was just an embrassment. And frankly if you're on that side, if you have Giannis, hakee,, Kobe, Lebron, you name it...they'd all leave...they'd all say hell with tilman and you guys would still be bashing them for this guy? as if he defined what clutch city is? thats the most bafflng thing. I wanted a local, but this guy has lied every step, be it with contracts, coaches, or anything that casuals don't know to look beyond headlines. I say all that, wildly disappointed that a team I give a lot of time nad money too just spent an entire season playing 0 meaningful games while we still paid up. I gotta call that out, I don't know if this younger generation is just taught to say yes sir, yes boss, dear leader, Ccp, bullshit or wahtever it is that leads to such a subservient mentality, but I don't have it. Doesn't mean I think rockets are over, I like what stone is doing, I always believe people can learn but you have to let em know too. Sarver is a great example, that due was cheap and a terrible owner even like tilman trading first rounders for savings which is just embarassing, he ended up being the one guy who paid all the contracts that tilman and apparently you say weren't worth it in trevor ariza and then chris paul...I bet you they don't regret this finals excitement Finally, you made a good point about it being longwinded, I get its not for everyone and while we disagree on somethings, I appreciate your sincere response. I don't expect everyone to have the same approach, although I'm shocked at the tilman excusers bc its delusional at this point, I say that also believing morey, harden, mda the hwhole lote fell short, but to not look at finances which any agent or player is a big part of what it takes to win, look at rich paul's recent quote and see if hes sending ANY of his stars here, probably not. But herse an example of keeping a contract alive. Suns Got Ariza....traded that season for Kelly Oubre...Kelly oubre and Rubio were combined to trade for....Chris Paul....They went to the finals this year, evne though they fell short had a historic culture change...also AYton claims chris paul was teh best thing for his career to push him to be better in ways no one could bc of his clout and big brother style...so also goes to show how you can help beyond stats, and chris paul said ariza did that same thing for him and harden. basketball is chemistry, cohesion, if you make it a formula then you may have just taken the worst of morey and tilman and combined em Go rockets. Not the Landry's Rockets, go Houston rockets
