Pete Newell: Shaq is the most complete center of all time.

Delete as redundant.

 

Am i the only on that thinks Shaq's one on one Defense is suspect?

he looks good against weak comp. But he not exactly shutting anyone
down. I'd venture to say that people school their average on him
esp if you take into acount the fact that fantom fouls cut into their
minutes



Rocket River

 

SHAQ is the most dominent big man ever
SHAQ is the most dominent big man ever arround the basket.AND THAT IS IT!
Hakeem was the most COMPLETE BIG MAN EVER. AND THAT IS IT. NO one even close!!!!!!

 

Why does Shaq have to have the ability hit jumpers? If he had a jumper, he would go into the KG/Chris Webber "settle for jumpers" mode. If anything, it's a good thing that Shaq doesn't have a jumper, so that he knows to go to the rim every time. I can't stand big men who settle for jumpers.

 

I don't think dream ever had trouble with any center he played against in his prime. Shaq has been outplayed by Divac. Hakeem in his prime was playing against some of the best centers of all time. Shaq is in his prime. What great centers are in their prime now?

 

Hakeem is the most complete center of all time. Shaq is the most dominant of all time. Hakeem is the only player ever to have 20k pts,10krebs in addition to being number 1 shot blocker and number 6 in steals all time. You can show me a center,guard,forward, no one that can touch those numbers. Before he's done, shaq might wind up with more points and maybe more rebounds, but blks and steal he'll never catch dream. An instance of Hakeems all around antics is the quad-double twice, but they took an asst away from him.

Someone said Vlade outplayed Shaq? I watched the entire series and Shaq avg 30 and 13 on Vlde. Shaq avg 28 and 13 against Dream in the finals. No center has ever dominated Shaq, not even Dream.

 

We are arguing over who is the most complete player. Basketball has a range of skills that are involved including the ability to hit a jump shot. But because Shaq cannot do this, he is lacking a certain skill. You can say that KG and Webber settle for jumpers, but KG has some trouble with his size and Webber has a weak post game. If Shaq could hit a jumper, this wouldn't necessarily make him into a "settle for jumpers" player, it would only make it harder for the defense to stop him. I also find it hard to call Shaq a complete player when guy's like Divac can get open jump shot after open jump shot on him when he knows they can make it. He needs to move his feet more on D. And apart from that and free throws, I would say Shaq is one of the most dominant centers of all time.

 

I'm new, but I gotta jump in. At this time, there is no way you can say Shaq is a more complete player than Dream.
Maybe after he learns how to shoot outside that dotted charge line...
Maybe after he starts making more tha 60% of his shot puts (I mean free throws)...
Maybe after he adds any of the following to his repertoire: jumper, fadeaway, spin move, free throw...
Maybe after he learns how to block shots while keeping them inbounds so you're team can fast break instead of showing off with a block out-of-bounds...
Maybe after he runs down KJ on a break...
Maybe after he dominates other Hall of Fame centers...
Maybe after his own coach and team are willing to rely on him in the 4th quarter...
Maybe after he becomes the most complete player on his own team.
Shaq may have 3 rings now, but he did it with Horry and Kobe. Hakeem had Horry and Kenny.We have never seen (and probably never will again) a player like the Dream. A 7-footer who could play inside and out, offense and defense, with an amazing combination of power and finesse, footwork and hand quickness. That's completeness. Shaq is unguardable now because he's just too big and strong for everybody else in the league. Hakeem was unguardable because no one knew what was coming next.
-More to come in the future-

 

I'll keep saying this every time someone brings this up......the most effective, and probably the 2nd best center in the League is Vlade.
That's right.......Vlade "On the court I'm just as good an actor as Pacino" Divac.


Dominating during these times need the "*" that Phil Jackson loves to mention about the Spurs' run.....which also deserved it IMO.

 

IF I was 7'2" and 350+ I would have those numbers too.
SHAQ IS NOT THE BEST ALL AROUND CENTER OF ALL TIME. He can't hit a 5ft. jump shot, he is a dumba$$ who can't hit freethrows. Is he dominant? Can't argue with that, but talented? Not at all. Hakeem (back in the day) would rule Shaq, oh wait he already did, sweep.

 

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

 

The only debate I have with Newell's analysis is Shaq's defensive effort, Shaq's just not consistent enough defensively for my tastes.

Granted, with the ridiculous lack of talent at the position, Shaq rarely has to play defense, so that shouldn't be held against him too much. But I would still like to see him do a better job of dominating the paint on a consistent basis, no one should ever want to penetrate on the Lakers.

Otherwise, it's hard to argue against Newell, even with Shaq's lack of range. Don't forget that Shaq's a better passer and ball-handler, and has always been better passing out of double-teams, i.e. he's always been a little better at making his teammates better players.

The ring count doesn't hurt, either.

 

While I rank Kareem extremely high on the list( did I just use Kareem and high in the same sentence...wow ), Hakeem was by far the more complete player.

By whatever offensive stats that Kareem is ahead of Hakeem, Hakeem is light years ahead of Kareem defensively.

Kareem also had the benefit of having some of the best players in the game on his teams..Oscar Robertson, Magic, Byron Scott, James Worthy, etc.

If it were not for Magic being drafted, Kareem never would have played and been as effective as he was for as long as he was. Magic revitalized his career.

 

Maybe Mr. Newell has been at this for TOO long. If he really believes that gobbly-goop he is spouting then he needs to retire.

Shaq - most dominate center ever

Hakeem - most complete center ever

Wilt & Kareem - most dominate offensive centers ever

Russell - most dominate defensive center ever ( although I give Hakeem 1a rating here, Russell is rated slightly ahead of Hakeem due to the fact that blocked shots were not kept as a stat when big bad Bill Russell roaming the paint. )

 

Dennis,

If blocked shots had been tracked for Kareem's whole career, he would be well ahead of Olajuwon, though probably still behind Russell. Really, the only center who could touch Kareem would be Wilt. It is the two of them, and then everybody else. Kareem's defense might be the most underrated thing in basketball. It's too bad that only Wilt and Bill played each other in their primes. At least between those two it was clear that Wilt was better.

 

Hydra, I agree. The sheer number of years in the league that Kareem played will give some unbelievable stats.

I would rate them as such from most complete to least complete:

1. Hakeem

1a.Kareem( very little room between Kareem and Hakeem, virtually on the same level. I give Hakeem the nod since Hakeem had a far less superior supporting cast than Kareem or even Wilt for that matter.)

2. Wilt ( Wilt was something special. He decided one year to lead the league in assists and did!!! He never fouled out of a game. Does that mean his defense was suspect...hardly. Outside of Russell, nobody would even go near him inside).

3.Shaq ( come on , If I had his size I would dominate too...but most complete of all time...HMMM)

4. Russell ( Defense will win you championships and that is why he is on this list)

 

Did they keep steals back then? Would Russell and Kareem also rank in the top ten in steals? Hakeem's hand were so fast he could come out of nowhere poke balls away, reach in passing lanes, strip the ball, AND block shots.