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[PelicanDebrief] Asik Trade a Mistake for Pelicans?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by durvasa, Dec 28, 2014.

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  1. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    LOL ... Omer. Tips in game tying bucket at the buzzer ... for the opposing team!
     
    #81 durvasa, Dec 31, 2014
  2. ZNB

    ZNB Contributing Member

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    Didnt something like that just happen in college too? What are the odds lol
     
    #82 ZNB, Dec 31, 2014
  3. count_dough-ku

    count_dough-ku Contributing Member

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    God help Omer if the Pelicans wind up missing the playoffs by a single game.
     
    #83 count_dough-ku, Dec 31, 2014
  4. RoxBeliever

    RoxBeliever Member

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    not intentional of course, right?

    Omer wants to be traded
     
    #84 RoxBeliever, Dec 31, 2014
  5. CantGoLeft

    CantGoLeft Member

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    The ORtg and DRtg from http://www.basketball-reference.com/ are estimates. OffRtg and DefRtg from nba.com are calculated. Asik's OffRtg is 101.5(10th best on NOP) compared to team OffRtg of 105.8. Asik's ORtg is 114(5th best of NOP) compared to team ORtg of 108.8 Tell me which stat is more believable?
     
    #85 CantGoLeft, Jan 1, 2015
  6. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Individual defensive rating even "calculated" is still not very meaningful without adjustment to teammates and opponents.
     
    #86 Easy, Jan 1, 2015
  7. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    They are describing different things. ORtg on basketball-reference.com is individual points produced (via scoring, assists, offensive boards) per possession used (via shot attempts, assists, turnovers). Asik is a low-usage player and he gets a good number of offensive boards and shoots only close to the basket. So, technically, he is more efficient individually. But he's still a major drag on the offense because defenses don't have to pay much attention to him and he doesn't really create shots for his teammates.

    In contrast, NBA.com OffRtg is the team's offensive rating when Asik is on the floor.
     
    #87 durvasa, Jan 1, 2015
  8. baubo

    baubo Member

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    The Rockets two years ago were a top 10 defense with Asik on the floor(overall they were 16th but they were terrible without him). That team feature some terrible defensive teammates. Only Beverley, who was still a rookie and wasn't nearly as effective on D as he became later, was any good. Everyone else was terrible.

    I don't know too much about the Pelicans, but I can't imagine playing alongside Davis and Holiday isn't at least better than Beverley 2 years ago.
     
    #88 baubo, Jan 1, 2015
  9. RocketTownHou

    RocketTownHou Member

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    Coming at it from a slightly different angle: You think it has affected Asik's psyche that he was traded from a potential championship team to a so-so team? That he is not a center capable of helping a team to a championship? I do.
    We all knew he was no offense and some defense and could never handle the ball on offense.
    He's kinda like Joey Dorsey, but a better foul shooter. (Not so fast--Dorsey hit one of his foul shots last night--great upside)
     
    #89 RocketTownHou, Jan 1, 2015
  10. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    He was capable of helping us win a championship. He's is far, far better than Dorsey. He didn't want to be here, so he got what he wanted.
     
    #90 durvasa, Jan 1, 2015
  11. CantGoLeft

    CantGoLeft Member

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    I understand that, but my point is it's an estimate. It's like PER in a sense. Sometimes it's a useful but flawed stat to judge overall play. Asik doesn't play enough minutes so their "estimate" of his ORtg is inflated. We also know that Asik is a poor FT shooter and poor finisher @ the basket <.500 FG% so he really isn't efficient at all. Clearly the ORtg stat is flawed.
     
    #91 CantGoLeft, Jan 1, 2015
  12. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Whether or not it is flawed really comes down to how one interprets its meaning. It is not literally a rating of the player's contributions on the offensive end. The name gives that impression, which is unfortunate, because even the person who originally came up with the stat doesn't describe it in that way. It is purely intended to describe how efficient a player is, but the threshold for acceptable efficiency from a player changes depending on their usage, which ORtg doesn't give you. Asik is an extremely low usage player who has good but not stellar efficiency. Put it together, and it indicates that he probably is not helping his team all that much on the offensive side of the ball.
     
    #92 durvasa, Jan 1, 2015
  13. roidrage

    roidrage Member

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    I did not know when the Rockets got this guy he was such a crybaby I thought he was a blue collar guy apparently not
     
    #93 roidrage, Jan 1, 2015
  14. TheJet

    TheJet Member

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    I lost all kinds of respect for Asik when he milked that "injury" here. As much as I liked his hustle and rebounding it was all for naught after that.

    I will admit that I thought pairing him with Davis would give N.O. a monster defensive front court. It just goes to show that "on paper" doesn't always translate to on the court.
     
    #94 TheJet, Jan 2, 2015
  15. nolimitnp

    nolimitnp Contributing Member

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    Weren't we kinda desperate to get rid of him? I mean we had to give the Lakers a future first round pick to take Jeremy Lin's contract off of our hands. Why did they give us a 1st Round pick?
     
    #95 nolimitnp, Jan 2, 2015
  16. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    Because he doesn't suck like Jeremy Lin.
     
    #96 rockbox, Jan 2, 2015
  17. bobloblaw

    bobloblaw Contributing Member

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    But it appears that he will also occasionally forget which team he is playing for.
     
    #97 bobloblaw, Jan 2, 2015
  18. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    It is a fairly 'monster' front court isn't it??

    They are getting over 10rpg each, and over 30ppg combined.
    Sure, Omer isn't doing much on the offensive end, but was that why they got him? Didn't they get him for a big to play C and free Davis to play more 4? Davis was fairly poor defensively last season as a 5, and has improved somewhat this season at the 4.

    They are on pace to win 20% more games than they did last season, it's been a solid add for them.
     
    #98 DrNuegebauer, Jan 2, 2015
  19. cebu

    cebu Member

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    trading for a big man who can't finish a play underneatch the ring is just awfully bad.
     
    #99 cebu, Jan 2, 2015
  20. Ariza4MVP

    Ariza4MVP Member

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    Really hope he doesn't go to a wcf playoff team next year. Him in portland would be scary.
     
    #100 Ariza4MVP, Jan 4, 2015
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