I read a long description of Payton by the poster "Nero" in the Rashard/Payton thread. He equates Payton to Iverson as the bad boy image that hurts the sport. I've heard this said about Payton a lot. imo, Payton is the epitome of the sport. This is the best defensive guard ever. The most consistently intense and competive player this side of Jordan. He is the sport. Everyone else needs to follow. So what if he yells at his teammates. Didn't Jordan? I don't really recall Payton ever hurting his team back when they were good. He bashed Kemp later...and that was proven to be Correct!! He bashed Vin Baker. And that was proven to be Correct!! I don't get it.
Good for the sport! How could he not be? If I were to make an all 90's team he would easily be in the top ten. I never thought he was that bad, and I think equating him to Iverson is ludicrous.
Payton is good for basketball, imo, because of the reasons already listed. He sucked his first few years but turned himself into an amazing player. He did so through sheer determination and will. His defense is great not just because he has athletic ability, but because he has the drive and focus to perfect it. He is able to do this while at the same time be a big time scorer and, recently, a top assists man. His stats have never been at the expense of teammates, either. The man single handedly gave the Sonics some hope in the Finals when he was (finally) assigned to guard Jordan - it helped on both sides of the ball. He does seem to have a bit of an attitude, but who cares? That is part of what made him great. I don't see him as a thug at all.
Nero wrote with passion about something that IS a problem in the League... the conduct and attitude toward the public AND the sport by some players. But I don't count Payton as one of them. I would go to war with him in a second. With your comparison to Jordan, HP, I'm going to assume you were talking of guards. I wouldn't agree with you if it's about all players of that time frame. On a side note, Dream was no angel early in his career. He wasn't always the courtly gentleman we all fondly remember. Didn't he rank at or near the top in disqualification's the season we went to the finals in '86?
Is GP the Game or the Sport ? It's all about the game, and how you play it All about control, and if you can take it All about your debt, and if you can pay it It's all about pain, and who's gonna make it I am the game, you don't wanna play me I am control, no way you can change me I have heavy debts, no way you can pay me I am the pain, and I know you can't take me Look over your shoulder, ready to run Like a Cleaveland b**** from a smoking gun! I am the game and I make the rules So move on outta here and die like a fool Try to figure out what my move's gonna be Come on over, sucker, why don't you ask me? Don't you forget there's a price you can pay Cause I am the game and I want to play It's time to play the game Hahaha
GP has done nothing to place himself in the "bad seed" category, as far as i'm concerned. now, i may not care for his style on the court (point guard that really can't shoot and posts up too much), but i won't let that cloud my view of him as an ambassador of the sport. is he an *******? sure. his teammates will tell you that. but so what?! so was jordan. so was hakeem at times. so was magic at times. so what. i think Nero allowed his personal dislike for payton to cloud his viewpoint. correct me if i'm wrong, but payton has been in "0" trouble his whole career. so to answer your question, HP, he's great for the sport. in fact, i wish more people would dedicate themselves defensively the way that GP has. that's not a natural talent. that's hard work and dedication to the sport. that's not just "getting by on freakish athleticism" like most *american* nba players are doing now. in fact, i fully expect GP to be a stellar, GRADE A head coach after he retires - much in the mold of nasty nate mcmillan.
He used to kill us in the playoffs, so therefore he is BAD for the sport! John Stockton and Karl Malone are also bad for the sport Larry Bird is probably worse for the sport than any player ever...
Originally posted by A-Train Verry Funny! Payton dropped that questionable attitude of his about 7 years ago. Since then, he's been a terrific NBA player. He D's up like a mutha which is something 90% of the league just refuses to do. His assits numbers are always good and he wants to win. What's wrong w/ all of that? He's w/o a doubt one of the best PG to lace them up during the '90's and his a future Hall of Famer IMO. So there is no way Payton is bad for the game if you ask me.
I don't think Payton ever had a questionable attitude. I watched him play at Oregon State, and he was already playing with an incredible intensity level. Name another player who brings it, night in and night out, like GP. I think he's fantastic for the sport, and I'm sorry but, I wish the Rocks guards had a little for GP type ferocity, especially on D. And as for his specific recent comments, I have zero problem with them. He's absolutely correct. How can the Sonics "respect" him but also be uninterested in giving him a well-deserved extension?
Sometimes he has questionable judgement with regards public statements, but who doesn't? I mean, it's not like he's President...Sorry..wrong thread..but, I will say this... IF you assume that Payton was a problem off the court, and a poor leader, it raises an interesting point, and one I've often wondered about. Iverson might be the best current example, but the best I remember was Rodman.. ON the court, Rodman was pretty much a coach's dream. Think about it..what kind of player do coaches stay up nights praying for? An intense, driven, competitive player who does the little things, plays defense, rebounds, and doesn't need the ball to be happy. Sure, you need scorers too, but Rodman kind of guys are invaluable...AND he was basically the best at those things. A smart player, a guy who dives for balls, goes the extra mile, and lets the other guys have the glory. On the other hand, he was pretty much an idiot off the court...late for practices, glory hog in the media, questioning decisions in public...Did this ever strike anyone else as incredibly inconsistent? Most glory hog/lazy practicers are your chuckers,your lay off me and give me the ball types..NOT your give it everything you've got on D and crashing the boards types...so in the final summation, was Rodman good for his teams, and good for the game? I honestly don't know...but the way he played the game sure was. Iverson's a bit different, in that he IS a chucker, but no one questions his desire and toughness on the court, his willingness to sacrifice for the team. He is I think, less excusable in the practice thing, because A0 He's the focus of the offense, and the other players need you there to practice that, and B) He does it more often. That said, he's a quandry to figure out... Payton is somewhere in between on the court..Plays both ends with passion and ability...is probably the best backcourt defender of his era, bangs down low for a guard, does the little things, leaves it all on the floor...abd I have never really heard that much about him missing practices etc...Some questions have arisen about his shooting his mouth off, but it was invariably in an " I want sooo bad to win, and this guy ain't cutting it!" kind of way than a " Hey, look at me!" way...Yeah, he's cocky, yeah, he's got mustard on three inches thick..But the guy's a gamer, and I'd take a team of Gary Paytons in a minute...
