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over a hundred people were murdered in the past few hours in the Syrian city of Hama

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by PointForward, Jul 31, 2011.

  1. PointForward

    PointForward Member

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    http://aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2011/07/201173143432348733.html
    The silence of the United States leadership has been absolutely embarrassing. Let me guess what comes next: Hillary Clinton will go out and say "Assad needs to either lead reform or step aside".

    HE'S A ******* CRIMINAL HILLARY. CRIMINALS AND MURDERERS DON'T LEAD REFORM.

    I am absolutely outraged at what's going on. I am of Syrian descent, I lived there for a significant part of my life, and I have tons of family and friends over there. What is happening is not acceptable. I hate throwing the word "genocide" around, but describing what's happening right now as a genocide is not a stretch. The regime leadership belongs to the minority Alawite religious group, and they are mass-murdering people in the city of Hama with freaking tanks just because they peacefully called for freedom.

    I voted Obama, and when the republicans said he would be "weak in foreign policy", I said yes, that's exactly what we need, someone who isn't war-happy like W and wants to bomb everyone. But it seems like this "weakness" they claim has some truth behind it. The president of the strongest nation in the world hasn't even taken a stance on this issue. Oh wait, no, he was "appalled". Put your damn foot damn! I'm not asking you to send in the military, I'm just asking for a strong position. "Assad has unequivocally lost legitimacy by committing heinous crimes against his people, and thus needs to leave RIGHT NOW". Instead he keeps "condemning" and saying stupid weak crap.
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    I agree with you, it's terrible.

    Can you explain what him being a member of a minority religious group has to do with it? (I don't know, it just stood out to me that you mentioned it.)
     
  3. PointForward

    PointForward Member

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    The security forces and military leadership are made up exclusively from members of the Alawite group, unlike what we've seen in Egypt, Tunisia and Libya where the ethnically heterogeneous nature of the armed forces led to them deserting the regime and siding with the people. Here, it's almost impossible for them to side with the people since this would mean an end to the 40 year rule of their minority group, something they aren't willing to see, so they have no problem killing as many people as needed to crush the freedom movement. This is why the Syrian situation is much more complex than others and this is why we've seen so much bloodshed.
     
  4. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    My perspective is.... what does the US actually gain or what changes from saying "Assad needs to leave right now?" Especially if we won't actually make a move to do it? That's just an all bark, no bite scenario, and doesn't help anyone or anything aside from possibly making us feel good about ourselves.
     
  5. thadeus

    thadeus Contributing Member

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    That sucks, and I hope that Syria ends up settled in an agreeable state as soon as possible. But, with that being said, the United States has serious problems of its own to worry about and we shouldn't be directly involved anywhere. It's like seeing someone drowning in the pool, and jumping in to save them even though you were just in a car accident and you have two broken legs.
     
  6. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

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    I'd rather not make more enemies.
    US is not doing itself any favors when the mass majority of the population in the Middle East sees the US as huge imperialists and elitists, which we confirm by yet again becoming directly involved in another LOCAL (as in not affecting or concerning us in any way or form whatsoever) conflict.

    Elaborating on what Thadeus said, throw them a rope and let them reel themselves in.
     
    #6 RedRedemption, Jul 31, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2011
  7. PointForward

    PointForward Member

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    The US ain't doing itself any favors by standing still and not saying anything. This regime's fall is inevitable. It's only a matter of time. And when the regime goes away and the new freely elected Syrian government starts being established, don't expect roses and love for the U.S that stood there and watched while the Assad regime murdered thousands.

    In the words of Dr. Martin Luther King: "In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
     
  8. PointForward

    PointForward Member

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    And make no mistake, I'm not calling for military intervention. I'm calling for an unequivocal stance against the regime. And yes, that may be all "bark", but speaking strictly from the point of view of "what do we get out of this?", the U.S will enormously improve its reputation in the middle east if it takes a strong stance and supports the Syrian people. Keep in mind that when the U.S ambassador toured the city of Hama during a peaceful protest of hundreds of thousands 2 weeks ago, he was literally greeted with roses and olive branches. And no killing took place that Friday. People were so thankful for this friendly move by the U.S.
     
  9. thadeus

    thadeus Contributing Member

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    Yeah, a clear and unambiguous statement by Obama would be fantastic.
     
  10. IBTL

    IBTL Member
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    :confused:

    Would a strongly worded letter make you feel better?

    You don't like that invading and USA fighting stuff, unless it's a regime you don't like?

    Perhaps you are part of the group in syria that is being targeted?
     
  11. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    If you really think that a Very Angry Letter is going to make a real difference in future Syrian and Middle Eastern foreign policy ( and this is of course assuming that Assad loses,) then you have a very different view of international relations than I do. Not to mention I think it's sort of demeaning that the view of the Syrian people towards the United States can be changed with nothing more than a letter or speech. Can't help but think about Reagan's delusions that he could get Gorbachev to end the Cold War if he could just get a real tour of the American people.
     
  12. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    He has made some statements, as has Ms. Clinton, but yes, not of the "clear and unambiguous" variety. Anything that can rachet the pressure up on the Syrian regime would be a plus. It's maddening to see the majority repressed by a minority, which is simliar to what we saw in Iraq with Saddam. This country can't (or shouldn't have, in Iraq) take military action against every murderous regime, however. What we can do (and should have done in Iraq, IMO) is use every means short of force to change the Regime's behavior, and do what we can short of military action to support those within the country in their effort to gain freedom.
     
  13. thadeus

    thadeus Contributing Member

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    That's how every government works.
     
  14. madmonkey37

    madmonkey37 Contributing Member

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    Other then the threat of military force, the US unfortunately has very little leverage over Syria. You should look to Syria's biggest European trading partners, like Germany, France and Italy to exert some sort of economic pressure.
     
  15. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Based on what happened in Washington today, you could have a point.
     
  16. Ender120

    Ender120 Contributing Member

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    I agree completey that the situation currently taking place in Syria should not be allowed.

    What I'm wondering is what you expect Obama to do that's more than publicly and internationally denouncing their government's actions, but short of warfare.

    You talked of "bark".

    What gray area are you expecting him to occupy that's more than bark, but less than bite?

    Not criticizing, just curious.

    Someone else mentioned economic sanctions by Syria's allies.

    Do you feel that a viable course of action?

    I'm not so sure.

    Some rulers have proven to be proud enough to allow their subjects to starve because they know economic downturn won't effect them.

    What are you asking to happen?
     
  17. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    I believe Germany has brought this situation before the UN security council yesterday.
     
  18. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    Do people genuinely feel that the only way to deal with this kind of problem is millitary intervention/invasion, and anything else is worthless?

    That seems to be the common theme from most of the people who have responded here.
     
  19. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    Well, we've put sanctions on Syria already. So that's out ( and they've increased since Assad started shooting people, though Point Forward seems to show that that is not something that is being acknowledged). And I don't think a Very Angry Letter is really going to change the mind of Assad or somehow change the perspective of the Syrian people towards the US, so yes, it's really not that useful. I wish the Syrian people were that gullible.

    So, uh, then what?
     
  20. HorryForThree

    HorryForThree Member

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    Agreed, but at the same time I do believe the US and its European allies are complicit in elciting that type of reaction from the world.

    When militarily intervening in Libya, the Obama administration justified its participation in the war by stating that, absent the military option, Ghaddafi would let loose on his own people and that the potential for a "bloodbath" was significant. As we all know, the Libyan uprising had been taking place for some time and no such "bloodbath" had materialized up till that point. Also, intervention would set a precedent that the US and like-minded nations were genuine brokers of goodwill, standing on the side of the people even if it required military support.

    The above dynamic is a product of the unchecked US militarism thats been taking place for the past decade. The military option seems to be one that we dont hesitate to use on weaker nations and nations less favorable to our own interests. Now that we suddenly have a bonified "bloodbath" taking place on the world stage, what will be our response? Would it not be hypocritical for us to seek diplomatic solutions with Syria when we were so quick to launch attacks in Libya?

    I've always thought it foolhardy to play parent when foreign nations were experiencing unrest, and that it would set an unhealthy precedent of being called upon to solve problems for other countries.

    For once, I think it would be wise to explore alternative forms of pressure that could be imposed on Syria in conjunction with the rest of the world. Sanctions are a start, but trade embargos, shutting down embassies, etc. are all possible so long as the world community contributes equally. The military option need not be our only option in cases such as these, and it will definitely take some level of creativity to devise an intelligent strategy that supports the people and undermines/weakens Assad's regime.

    That said, I cant blame people for calling on the US to intervene once again. We created this bed, and now we've got to lay in it.
     

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