excuse me, but there's something i've noticed on this board......instead of telling the guy it's not gonna work 30 times.....why don't u tell him it won't work and then tell him 29 different ways it will work.....just a thought....
Obviously it's not the worst in NBA history. In case you hadn't noticed, that's called exaggerating. But seriously, my point was just to show how really bad this deal is, and it is terrible. Also, are you the Portland GM? If not, then how do you know we can't get Grant? ------------------ Cheaters never win. Unless you play for LA that is.
Man, you sure throw ignorant around a lot. What's up with that? If you read my post a little more carefully you will see in () that it would be with or without other concessions. In no way did I imply that we could get him outright with the 9. It would not work cap-wise anyway. Are you incapable of debate without calling out someone's intelligence? If someone disagrees with you, are they automatically wrong? To be frank, O for the nine is ridiculous but I avoided calling you out for it until I read your response. ------------------
Homework For all the people who feel trading the #9 for Harrington is a bad trade, please look back at previous draft trades within the #5 - #10 range so you can actually see the precedence on how much the pick is actually worth. Please report back with your findings.
It's your point, why don't you back it up? You're hyper-educated, obviously. Don't YOU know where to look? 2 come to mind for me - Vlade for Kobe (13th pick) and Antonio Davis for Bender (5th pick). ------------------
The last two number 9 picks I believe have been Shawn Marion and Dirk Nowitski. Compare them to Othella. ------------------ Cheaters never win. Unless you play for LA that is.
B-Ball Freak, I made my point. I said trading the #9 for Harrington is a good deal because: a). He does have the talent b). He is cheap (check out his contract) c). Adds depth to both the 4 and 5. d). The #9 pick doesn't always pan out and Harrington is a proven NBA player. People are saying that trading the #9 for Harrington was stupid without backing up their claim with facts. I simply alerted to them that they could find past precedence by looking at past draft day transactions to find the pick's true wealth.
1. yes, he is talented no, he does not fit our system 2.He is cheap - no argument 3.adds depth but not a great amount of quality. You mentioned he could bang with Shaq, Karl, and Duncan. All 3 of those guys will destroy O. 4. Nothing ALWAYS pans out. There is a reason we traded him. Partly to get Francis and to commit to the running game that would make Quitten happy. With the ability that CD and Rudy have had with late picks, I am eager to see what they reap with the 9. ------------------
Sky Pilot, you dismiss Grant for basically a #9 (can thrown in salary guys like Walt if you want) as out there. I think that is short sighted. As many of as said, Grant is a good rebounding, good defensive 4, we are not talking about an all-star. We are also talking about a 28 year old guy who had a very so-so year, and has had some injuries. Further, this is a guy who might also force Portland to trade him (I would if I were him), as he can always sign as a FA with a promised huge future contract and the Blazers could lose him for nothing potentially to their worst rival (e.g., do what Shandon did with us). Because of all the above reasons (age, injury, modest offensive game), objectively in Grant we are talking about 5-7 pick worth, 9 isn't that far off. Plus, some teams like Chicago and other rebuilding teams would have zero interest in getting Grant at the cost of 5-6-7 or 8 pick, and you have to consider Portland’s hand may be forced. Put all these all together, trading basically Grant for a 9 pick plus spare parts isn't that unreasonable. It is far more reasonable from Portland's perspective than it would be for us to give up a Mike Miller, Demarr Johnson, Miles or Moiso for an Othella Harrington. That is more out there to me. (after more research) SP here is some homework for you: the last 3 years 5 picks are Bender, Carter and Battie; the 6 picks are-Wally, Traylor and Ron Mercer; 7th are Rip, J. Willimas, and Tim Thomas; 8th are A. Miller, Hughes, and Folye; 9th are Marion, Notwiski and McGrady; 10th are Terry, Pierce and Forston. You would have to be crazy to give up good chance at landing a Marion, Notwiski or McGrady (9 pick) for Othello. If Othello came out the previous view years it would be questionable that he would make a lottery selection at all. I have adjusted by my placement of Grant as well (to say 6-8). Yes, there is always the probability of drafting a Battie, but you can find a Carter as well. IMO, and I think it is backed up by the drafts, Grant is closer to a 9 pick in worth than he is to 5 pick, especially considering his age and his inconsistent year. ------------------
Compare Othella to Eric Montross (1994), Ed O'Bannon (1995), and Samaki Walker (1996). We know what to expect from Harrington, the #9 is an unknown. FYI: Past #9's. 1985 - Charles Oakley 1986 - Brad Sellers 1987 - Derrick McKey 1988 - Rony Seikaly 1989 - Tom Hammonds 1990 - Willie Burton 1991 - Stacey Augmon 1992 - Clarence Weatherspoon 1993 - Rodney Rodgers 1994 - Eric Montross 1995 - Ed O'Bannon 1996 - Samaki Walker 1997 - Tracy McGrady 1998 - Dirk Nowitzki 1999 - Shawn Marion 40% have been geniune busts. (note: I said 30% before but I stand corrected)
Othello is a proven NBA player. However, he is not a star and IMO adds little to the current roster. I like KT's game as much or more and think he will improve more from this point forward than O will. There definately is a certain amount of risk in the # 9 pick. However, I think the possible reward is significantly greater than the possible reward of Othello. I would be very disappionted if the Rockets traded the 9th pick for Othello. ------------------
sir scarvajal, I dismiss the #9 for Grant for two large reasons: #1 - Bob Whitsitt is very good (Blazers GM) #2 - I can name 28 other teams that would love to land a Brian Grant.
There are a number of teams that would have limited (read not "none", but limited) interest in Brian Grant. Just to name a few Portland (obviously, they will be trying to unload him), Chicago, Sacremento, SA, Denver, Seattle, Charlotte, Toronto, Utah, etc. Even team desperate for a better low post game (e.g., Golden State) would not trade a young 5ish pick quality player (either Jamison or Hughes) for Brian Grant. OK if you were another GM what would you give for Brian Grant?? If it is a 5 pick or less I would say that deal is as lopsided as Othella for a #9 is. Of course there are always busts, but there are Oakleys and McGradys (both 9 picks) who are worth an infinant # of Othellas or 2-3 Brian Grant quality players. I put Grants worth maybe around an outright 7 or 8 pick, where do you?? [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited June 05, 2000).]
Though Othella Harrington is one of my favorite players I could not find myself sending a number 9 pick for him. Absolutley now way if it's straight up. And he is one of my favorite players, Vancouver is always the 2nd teams stats that I read about just to find his progress!! Now that's a fan. With the 9th pick the Rockets could get such players like Pryzbillia, Etan Thomas, Moiso, or Tsakalidis. These guys would all add bulk and have pretty high potential ceilings. If this team did not have Kenny Thomas I would try to pry Othella back to Houston at an above than Market trade. Of course not using the 9th pick straight up!!! But Walt for Othella and 2 second rounders seems pretty fair!!! ------------------
Though Othella Harrington is one of my favorite players I could not find myself sending a number 9 pick for him. Absolutley now way if it's straight up. And he is one of my favorite players, Vancouver is always the 2nd teams stats that I read about just to find his progress!! Now that's a fan. With the 9th pick the Rockets could get such players like Pryzbillia, Etan Thomas, Moiso, or Tsakalidis. These guys would all add bulk and have pretty high potential ceilings. If this team did not have Kenny Thomas I would try to pry Othella back to Houston at an above than Market trade. Of course not using the 9th pick straight up!!! But Walt for Othella and 2 second rounders seems pretty fair!!! ------------------
oops on that 2nd post; that's just a repeat of the previous one!!!! Then again by now you must know!!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha!! ------------------
I put Grant's value at around a 4 or 5 pick. Brian Grant is better than Antonio Davis. That said, many of the teams that could really use his service don't have the #4 or #5 pick. I could see the Knicks trading Camby, Houston, and a salary (Childs or Ward) for Grant and Stoudamire.
vince, Przybilla will not be availible at #9. ------------------ There better be a statue of Hakeem outside of the new downtown arena.
