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Orlando's offense + Houston's defense (combining the best of both?)

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DavidS, Jul 27, 2004.

  1. DavidS

    DavidS Contributing Member

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    Last year, mid-season, I was taking to someone (Rocket "someone," I can't remember) on this BBS about Orlando's offense and Houston's defense. We were taking about why each team was losing (if the "search" was working, I could have found out! :p )

    Anyways, we spotted some interesting stats about each team...
    Some of these stats jump-out at you and are pretty evident. Houston was a turn-over machine (high-turnovers; 2nd to last; 16.7), but played great defense (front court; Cato/Yao + positional team defense; held opponents to 88.5). Orlando played terrible defense (allowed 101.06; worst in the league), but was one of the *least* turnover prone teams in the league (4th best; 13.7).

    We did loose a defensive front-court player: Cato. We'll miss his 96 blocks he had last year even though Yao gave us 156. One of the things that I'm looking forward to (pun not intended), is Howard's ability to make defenders pay when he drops back for those 15 foot jumpers; we'll need him to open the court when Yao is doubled-teamed. We didn't have that with Cato starting. So, although, we lost some of Cato's blocking. We gained some mid-range shooting, plus rebounding, in Howard.

    Although Orldano's trifecta of Lue, Howard and McGrady were great in NOT turning the ball over; hence 94ppg. They were the worst in defense in the NBA! Houston's problem (pun not intended, again) was our sorry turnovers; even with a slow down offense.

    So, the question is...can we merge the best of both teams? We do have Lue, Howard and McGrady's low turnover rates of 1.6, 2.2 and 2.6 respectively. So, we're good there. So, the BIG QUESTION IS: HOW GOOD WILL OUR DEFENSE BE? JVG, we need your defensive discipline! :cool:

    Thoughts?

    P.S. This by no means suggest that I expect Lue to be our future PG. Just adding him to the equation from past Magic stats.

    Here's the full stats for both teams: offense, infractions, defense, assist/turnover for the selected Magic players...

    ***Note yellow highlights***

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     
    #1 DavidS, Jul 27, 2004
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2004
  2. snowmt01

    snowmt01 Contributing Member

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    How about Houston Offense + Orlando defense = :D
     
  3. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    The question is whether our new Magic players can play defense. T-Mac should be no problem. He now plays in a system with low # of posessions and doesn't have to expand as much energy on offense. With JVG as the coach, I'd expect him to return to his defensive level during the Raptors days.

    Lue is definitely a defensive liability. Although perhaps no more so than Francis. Howard can't patrol the paint the way Cato did, but Cato's only an average on-the-ball defender, and isn't a great help defender. So it's conceivable that Howard isn't going to be much of a dropoff from Cato defensively.

    I think the low TOs by our new additions is definitely important. With our conservative style, posessions are such a premium that TOs matter more to us than most other teams.
     
  4. DeAleck

    DeAleck Contributing Member

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    :)
    That's alot of work you put into this thread. Thanks!
    :)
     
  5. RC Cola

    RC Cola Contributing Member

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    I knew that the Rockets were up there in TOPG, and that they also weren't good at creating TO's, but I didn't know they were the worse in the differential. So we have a lot to work on in that category alone that could dramatically help the team out IMO.
     
  6. DavidS

    DavidS Contributing Member

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    Good catch. That's why everytime we played Memphis we got our teeth kicked in. Check out how many TOPG they cause...
     
  7. SmoothOperator

    SmoothOperator Contributing Member

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    I find it interesting that Utah with those "great" point guards that everyone wanted Arroyo and Lopez that they were third worst in TOs/game. Hmmm....
     
  8. DavidS

    DavidS Contributing Member

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    Arroyo = 5.0 apg, 2.2 topg <--low TO, good average
    Lopez = 3.7 apg, 2.1 topg <---high TO for limited minutes, but a rookie trying to run under Sloan's system. Keep an eye on him next year.

    Add up the *rest* of the team, and you'll have your high TO for Utah. So, it's not the guards fault alone, although Lopez (the rookie) deserves most of the blame.

    But for this, you actually have to watch them play.
     
  9. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    I had Arroyo on my fantasy team last year. His a/to ration was good early on, but later in the year he had some good scoring games, but some terrible turnover games, like killer b/c i needed that category.

    Defensively, T-Mac has mad abilities. He was on my fantasy team when he was with the Raptors. Without the offensive burden, he blocked shots, got steals, rebounded....great all around fantasy player. He has the quickness and length and basketball learning ability to become a top defensive stud under Van Gundy in my opinion.

    Lue is fast. That's about it. I watched a handful of Magic games last season. Lue cannot be the primary decision maker. He's fast and can shoot okay and has a few moves.

    I haven't read the Kittles thread yet. But I love Kittles' stats (another former fantasy player of mine). Good steals and consistent enough scoring. I wouldn't mind a Kittles' T-Mac backcourt at all. With the zone defense, and their length, Kittles and T Mac could cover a lot of space and really disrupt the passing lanes.
     
  10. qrui

    qrui Member

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    insightful thread. thanks davids.
     
  11. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Kittles and McGrady play the same position, don't they? How can they be in the same backcourt? :confused:
     
  12. solid

    solid Contributing Member

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    DavidS, you need to either get a job or start working at the job you have! ;) You have entirely too much time on your hands, and if the Rockets take off this year, and I think they will, you are going to wear out your fingers. Very good post.
     
  13. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    It's not about positions to me. On Defense, I'd rely primarily on a zone with JJ, T-Mac, and KK harping defenders and playing the passing lanes. Each one of them, imo are great on ball defenders too. Kittles is so surperb that he can shut down most opposing PG's. T-Mac can take a swingman and so can JJ, who is very smart and agressive defensively.

    Yao (who sucks at on ball defense, but a better help defender) can roam the middle and area rebound, which i think he does anyways (as opposed to boxing out much).

    Offensively, the system will be either dump it in to Yao or 2man with T-Mac and Yao or another player. You can station KK on one wing and JJ on the other. They both are reliable 3 pt shooters and can put the rock on the ground and take it to the whole when necessary.

    T-Mac would be the primary ball handler at the top with Yao on strong post and Howard on weak post.


    Everyone wanted Brent Barry b/c he is 6'6", can hit the trey, put the ball on the ground and is smart. Kittles is everything Barry is except for his passing skills, but KK makes up for that by being a better defender.

    The Rocks don't need PG who could create; he just needs to hit the jumper, not be dumb, play good D, and drain the open trey. KK is not a PG, but he can fill the described role.
     
  14. vandelay23

    vandelay23 New Member

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    Hey Kim,

    Who won that fantasy league again? I forgot. :cool:
     
  15. Yaniv

    Yaniv Member

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    We already have Jackson we dont need KK to play that position, we need a real PG .
     
  16. DavidS

    DavidS Contributing Member

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    Hey, soild. I've actually been wanting to post this thread a month ago after we traded for McGrady, but I kept putting it off because I knew it would take some time.

    And, yes. I admit. I'm addicted to this site. I'm probably the only one, right? ;)
     
  17. SmeggySmeg

    SmeggySmeg Contributing Member

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    davids,

    great stuff, very appreciated research

    the majority of the Orlando offense part of the equation sure now is in Houston, but what about the Rockets D from last year.... we have trade away our 2 best defenders that resulted in those great defensive stats... of those remaining Jimmy is smart but really servicable at best, Mo is a liability at best and for me the jury is out Yao... lue may may not be outstanding but for me Yao's D is the reason the 4/5 spot is rockets priority.... why did JVG persist with starting Cato.. given his hands of stone and ability to assist opposition defense to double and sag on Yao... he brought the tough interior D and rebounding that Yao couldn't supply..... unless Yao can step up his D a whole pile of notches our defense is going to take a step back..... Lue is better defensively than the Matador and Tracey when switched on will more than replace Cat... and Howard is a nice player and certainly a big upgrade over Mo defensively and rebounding wise and offensively should be almost a perfect fit with Yao, but we need some grunt and support for Yao instead of subbing Juwan with Juwan light (mo)

    love your stuff.. for me the key to the rockets is Yao playing amazing D and/or the rockets at some grunt at the backup 4/5 position
     
  18. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    So you want to play Kittles as PG? I can understand your reasoning on defense. But will JVG play 3 SGs on offense?
     
  19. New Jack

    New Jack Member

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    He kind of did last season, didn't he?
     
  20. Franchisehoops

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    only if you are stupid enough to think francis is a sg
     

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