Do you have any examples of these studies? I have never seen one, and I have asked several times for examples in these gun control debates. I have seen plenty of studies that say gun related crime decreased, but not overall crime or violent crime. I have even seen something that said rape and assault increased, though I don't recall where to find it.
The proof and evidence is pretty self explanatory. If you have to wait to kill someone with a gun, can you still kill them? Of course....show some evidence that a waiting period or registry would put a dent in gun violence.
The 2nd amendment reads "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.". That clearly means that the people have the right to keep arms to create a militia when necessary, not that you have to belong to a militia to own arms. This amendment was created to help ensure the freedoms granted in the Constitution.
Two of the more reasonable gun nuts asked me for a list of reasonable restriction... I provided. And you quickly dismiss them by saying "None would likely to even put a dent in gun violence"? Likely? While you even you admit you don't know for certain... I will still challenge you to explain why they won't lessen the growing gun violence problem we're discussing? Or would you prefer an outright ban?
There has been several. District of Columbia v. Heller and McDonald v. City of Chicago immediately come to mind. The SCOTUS reinforced the idea that the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right, completely apart from membership in a militia.
Kennesaw, GA, a suburb of Atlanta, has a local ordinance that requires all residents to own a firearm and ammunition, with the exception of conscientious objectors, criminals, people who cannot afford a gun, and the mentally ill. The crime rate there is significantly lower than other area towns of similar size, and obviously much lower than neighboring Atlanta. Guns are infrequently used in crime there. Not only has your social experiment (or something reasonably close) been tried, it has worked.
I just want to make sure that we are all in agreement that whatever SCOTUS decides is the right decision. I wonder if this BBS would vote in the affirmative on that? Are they good at interpretation when they uphold gun rights AND when they uphold Obamacare AND when they authorize gay marriage?
LOL, an outright ban is unconstitutional, and most of your restrictions would be "feel good" moves that wouldn't actually do anything. How many of those who go on these shooting sprees have a record? Not that many, meaning a background check or waiting period would do nothing at all.....but it would make the anti-gun crowd feel like they had done something. The only way to actually curb the violence is with increased security and advances when it comes to identifying and treating the mentally ill.
Heller maybe, but that was limited to federal enclaves. i don't think McDonald touched on the militia question.
Are you suggesting that the solution to the drug problem is to make drugs illegal (aka prohibition or the war on drugs)? I don't think many of your gun control fellow travellers are going to agree with you.
There are times when their interpretation can be wrong, but usually when there is a string of decisions, they are pretty solid. Protecting gun rights and protecting the right of gays to marry were absolutely the right decision. I think Obamacare is a separate issue, but you won't find me complaining pretty much any time the SCOTUS rules in favor of civil liberties.
Well they were both rulings dealing with the individual right, but yeah, McDonald was more directly relevant to the militia question because that was the argument the state was trying to make, and it was dismissed.
http://progressivevalues.blogspot.com/2007/04/kennesaw-georgia-gun-violence-reduction.html http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/30/1295761/-It-s-the-law-in-Kennesaw-everyone-MUST-own-a-gun http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2007/01/16/kennesaw-gun-ordinance-yet-aga/ http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2010/10/myth-of-kennesaw.html http://thedailybanter.com/2014/04/m...age-in-georgia-town-where-guns-are-mandatory/ http://namelesscynic.blogspot.com/2013/11/debunking-tale-of-two-cities.html Basic response: Gun ownership is not really enforced in the community and is probably somewhere around 70%. It was above 50% before the law. The town had very few murders before the law so statistical noise is easy to create. (Example, going from 3 murders to 1 murder represents a HUGE "percentage" decrease but not really a relevant number.) Armed robberies actually went up. They had a school shooting. Compared to a city outside of Chicago that passed a total gun ban the same year (this is actually why this Georgia town passed the gun ownership law, as sort of a middle finger to the Chicago suburb) there is actually nothing that shows this little town has had better results than the town that banned guns.
Really sad that folks continue to justify maintaining the deadly status quo that kills our children so regularly.
For what it's worth, I don't actually think there are many gun laws you could come up with that would address school shootings aside from a total ban of all firearms, a total collection of all currently owned firearms, etc. There are just too many guns already and a school shooting just takes one person getting a gun. Gun laws COULD put a dent in the overall number of deaths from guns though. Gun violence in America isn't just about guns though. It's about guns, drugs, the criminal justice system, poverty and a poor social net for those with mental illness.
Related to your post... Study Says Concealed Carry Permits Don't Affect Crime Supporters insist that allowing people to legally carry concealed handguns reduces crime, but that has not been the result in at least four states that have tried it, including Texas, according to a newly published academic study led by a Texas A&M researcher. The study published in the Journal of Criminology looked at the connection between crime rates and concealed handgun permits for each county in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida and Texas. Researchers used two sources of data from 1998 to 2010: concealed handgun license information and arrest data from Uniform Crime Reports, which the FBI compiles nationwide to gauge arrests for serious crimes including homicide, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, theft and arson. Overall, they found no connection between allowing concealed weapons and crime rates, which are trending downward nationwide. More at the links...
